Prius--my view

[mauleskyrocket]

last production 9-3 cnvt. I have had many and prefer this old model to the new. The new has a GM engine and basically a GM driveline. Probably a great car but I like the old SAABs.

[Volken]

Originally Posted by mauleskyrocket

last production 9-3 cnvt. I have had many and prefer this old model to the new. The new has a GM engine and basically a GM driveline. Probably a great car but I like the old SAABs.

You should read more details about latest Saab before making these comments, because they are all wrong. Saab is main dedicated plant for all Turbo engines within GM. It is 100% all made by Saab !

This is strategic decision brought by GM for second year by now.

New drive platform is called Epsilon and it is combined GM/Saab/Opel research.

Although to me old 900 and 9-3 hatch models are timeless expression of timeless classic expression and look more original to more confection new sedan look,...there is no getting away that latest 9-3 Sport Sedan is far more advanced particularly with drive-train then old 9-3.

After all, quirky old 9-3 drive was reason why this model divided entire world press in two sides : One hated its guts, other loved the same

You should look at Saab forum, beacuse this is well covered.

[mauleskyrocket]

Agree that new epsilon better but the old one is what I like--I even like the cowl shake!

[Volken]

Originally Posted by mauleskyrocket

Agree that new epsilon better but the old one is what I like--I even like the cowl shake!

Fine. No more OT.

This is Prius forum after all

Mauleskyrocket, could you at least post some pictures of your Prius?

I would really like to see the same, it was after all car that was driving you well.

[mauleskyrocket]

I hope I do not anger because it is not my purpose. Here are facts re my car:
1) The mileage figures are nonsense. If you use the air (90F) and if you do not become a road hazard---you get about 38 mpg.
2) You only get the advertised mileage if you use no air --stay under 60--and accelerate so slowly that the CVT hits its highpoint very early and you are a road hazard.
3) With an 11 gallon tank--aside from fuel cost--your range is not as good as a Lexus with a big tank and a 22mpg cruise.
4) A VW TDI is definitely better if you want good mileage with normal driving.
5) The fuel consumption readout drives one crazy.
6) People with Kerry stickers think you are like them.
Well I own one---but!

[Volken]

Originally Posted by mauleskyrocket

I hope I do not anger because it is not my purpose. Here are facts re my car:

Any particular reason for re-posting again something you wrote long ago?

Please read again my last post and respond in rational sense with applied and appropriate reply.

Thanks.

[mauleskyrocket]

I posted it because it is true. The car is falsely advertized re mpg. Potential buyers should know that. As to your agenda who knows---and who cares.

[lillucas]

No, what you posted isn't true. Firstly, even though I repeatedly asked what your tire pressure/engine oil level was you've failed to list what they were. They will *note dramatically! change the output of your mpg. MANY MANY people have been getting EPA values and if you look on the site www.greenhybrid.com you can see that the average for the 2nd generation Prius is over 48 mpg. And definately NO you don't have to accelerate increadibly slow and turn off the A/C. Jason, the site owner averaged 47.2 mpg and i know for a fact that he uses air conditioning. krousb has even gotten more than 80 mpg and over 900 miles on ONE WHOLE TANK. So don't just assume that your ONE Prius, which you probably did not set the tire pressure/oil level to the right values, represents the whole of all Prius. Plus, the car does not "advertise" the mpg as a representation for all drivers. They clearly state that it was achieved with EPA's standards and that owner's MPG will vary. During their(EPA) tests, the Prius' engine was off half the time. You also don't tell us what climate you live in and what kind of terrain you have to commute through. Obviously if you live in mountainous or hilly areas, your MPG will decrease. But this is true for ANY car! Most people get 48 mpg. And although that might not be the same value as the EPA's value, that's still a considerable amount! PLUS!!! what car have you known to actually GET an average that is the actual EPA number? Hardly any cars will do that. And a VW TDI? They set off tons more NOx and SO2 and you wont be achieving great MPG if you do stop and go driving AT ALL since diesel works better the other way. Plus you only get 90 HP from a Jetta TDI and 125 lbs of torque. Way much slower than a Prius IF you ever EVER needed that much power. It seems to me that you purchased the Prius without doing much research on your part...if you actually DID purchase one.

[mauleskyrocket]

Sorry. Your wrong. Prius is the cause of EPA starting a program to change their testing. See WSJ. The Prius does not get anywhere near the advertised (yes advertised) mileage in real driving. But then driving one is a Kerry thing!

[lillucas]

It's clear that you did not take the time to actually read my last post. An average of 71 people on www.greenhybrid.com who own the 2004 Prius equals over 48 mpg. Just because you achieved sub 40 mpg doesnt mean the Prius does not get anywhere near the advertised mileage in real driving. I will say this once more. YOUR PRIUS DOES NOT REPRESENT ALL PRIUS. Especially, ESPECIALLY, since you neglected to check the tire pressure and engine oil level. It seems to me that you will say anything to defame the Prius because of your negligence to actually achieve mpg.

[mauleskyrocket]

comprendez vous? The EPA is REDOING it's system because of the inaccurate window sticker on a Prius. My SAAB says 32 on highway but gets 34! I am not knocking the Prius. But after owning one, I still maintain it is deceptively advertised. My TDI VW did just as well---with more power and running air and going 80 etc. I mean it when I say Kerry types buy this car under a misguided impression that they are saving the planet. That is their freedom and I applaud their motive. Just don't tell me what a great car it is. As for a bunch of owners claiming high mileage---ya and I bet their wives look like Frederique Van Der Wall as well.

[lillucas]

I KNOW the EPA is REDOING their system. BUT that doesnt mean people ARE NOT achieving EPA values. Do you even see advertisements of Prius? They're not on TV! And the WINDOW STICKER? That's just required by the EPA to put it on the Prius. IT ALWAYS SAYS YOUR MILEAGE WILL VARY. It is NOT deceptively advertised because they plainly tell you that you most likely wont get 55 mpg. It is also NOT a misguided impression that they are saving the planet. I have a great article in Newsweek that fully describes the problem. As for owner claiming high mileage? They take both the on board MPG and they ALSO calculate the MPG when they fill up. THEN they choose the LOWEST one. You maintain that the Prius is deceptively advertised even though you didn't take precautions to ever get good fuel economy. TOO MUCH ENGINE OIL WILL DECREASE THE PRIUS'S MPG CONSIDERABLY. If your tires arent inflated to a certain level either, you'll lose even more mpg. In essence you could have been getting 45+ mpg if you actually researched a little bit more. The dealer is incorrect most of the time and doesnt fill the engine right or inflate the tires correctly.

[lillucas]

By the way.. I want to make an edit on page two. I meant 3.9 L

[mauleskyrocket]

We can agree on one point. Most dealers know nothing. I did keep my tire inflation on the high side. My prior car had been a TDI and that got 50 mpg on the highway with no fuss or mental bother as to ho I drove. The Prius not only gies far less mileage than promoted but also is a lousy driving experience. Unless, as I said, your motive is to fit in with the Kerry boys. I am curious re oil---are you suggesting one keep the oil lower than the indicated "full" on the stick?

[john1701a]

I have participated on countless forums to discuss hybrids over the past four years. Today, I joined another... this one.

With over 80,000 miles of Prius driving experience in the hostile climate of Minnesota under all imaginable driving & traffic conditions, I have an overwhelming amount of data supporting my endorsement in the full hybrid design Toyota has created (called "HSD").

MPG claims are mostly attempts to mislead. Simply make the person present the actual data in detail. That always clarifies the issue. In the cases where traditional cars are reported to achieve impressive efficiency, you will often find that the data is highway-only in nature. So what they are telling you is true; however, they don't tell you that MPG is considerably lower when they slow down. City & Suburb driving is typically quite disappointing for those same vehicles. That is not the case with a hybrid using HSD, where MPG climbs when you slow down.

EMISSIONS are almost always totally ignored in traditional verses hybrid debates. There simply is no contest. A hybrid that delivers both great efficiency and great emissions is what the anti-hybrid people fear most, and that's exactly what the HSD system does. Prius, for example, delivers a real-world mixed-driving average of about 49 MPG and an emission rating of AT-PZEV. Just say, "Show Me The Data!" The traditional vehicles just plain cannot compete with that, especially if it uses diesel.

TRANSMISSION is another argument problem. Those against hybrids often use data from manual transmission vehicles, which is highly deceptive. Since 90 percent of the market in the United States prefers a transmission that doesn't require shifting, forcing them to switch to one that does require it is just plain wrong. But they know quite well that automatic transmissions don't get anywhere near as good MPG. Fortunately, the full hybrids use a CVT, which doesn't require shifting yet it delivers even better efficiency.

COMPLEXITY is another point which carries no meaning. A full hybrid eliminates many components found in a traditional vehicle. To further simplify the design, the transmission is always engaged, no changing of contact surfaces ever. As yet another benefit, the motors are brushless, so no replacement is ever needed.

BATTERY life is quickly becoming something those wanting hybrids to fail a topic to avoid. Real-World data is beginning to confirm the lab test results. It shows that capacity is diminished somewhere between 150,000 and 200,000 miles. After that, you take a MPG hit since capacity is reduced. That's it! Acceleration isn't even affected, because there's more than enough capacity still remaining for that and most of the time a full hybrid doesn't even use the battery-pack when accelerating anyway (the electricity is generated on-the-fly by the engine instead) Anywho, Toyota is now providing a 180,000 mile quote whenever people ask about battery-pack expectations.

PRICE is key to many discussions. What isn't is the fact that neither mass-production nor third-party supplier has begun. Without that, real comparisons cannot be made fairly. Production costs will obviously drop once that begins; it is a well documented fact in economics... especially in the automotive industry. So always look at the long-term outcome, not what is happening at the current moment.

OTHER factors that affect efficiency are commonly not addressed at all. Tire-Pressure makes a huge difference; soft tires hurt efficiency. Another factor is overfill of engine oil, too much causes an internal hindrance. Still another is the reality that winter-formula fuel holds less energy, so MPG will naturally be less. Yet another is that cold are is more dense, which causes greater resistance. And of course, break-in is often forgotten; a new vehicle will always report lower MPG than one that has a minimum of 10,000 miles on it.

In summary, I don't fall for the message posts that don't acknowledge all of the criteria I just mentioned. Because if they don't, they are not being objective.

JOHN
http://john1701a.com