Timing Belt destroyed engine

[EGW]

my KIA is 6 years old - goes 20km,s a day- has 130,000 km,s on it. now they say i need a belt and then they say to change the water pump to. do you have to do that and is there anything else that should be changed at the same time. i came here because if you knew what i went thru with the dealership you would never buy a car again.- - what does the factory say about it all . Thanks -- owning a KIA disturbes your mind--

[RosannaNN1]

I believe all of you when you speak about problems with the timing belt and engines. However, I believe the problem to be KIA not "abuse" which the tecs are so quickly to use as a label. I am currently trying to help my DAD navigate huge problems with his KIA which stalled while he was driving 4 days ago. Hi car has 42,000 miles on it..... The timing belts teeth were completely disintegrated in some places on the belt. Now we are told that the valves are gone. Most of you will think this isn't a problem because he can claim it on his powertrain warranty which we see all over the internet as a 10 year/100,000 mile warranty. However, according to KIA Corporate our car is not covered under this warranty because my dad purchased the car when it was 6 months old from their dealer in Yonkers. Although he was told that the car would continue with the original terms of the warranty, and they repeated that to me when I spoke with the sales person for confirmation, Kia Corporate now states that apparently we were lied to. And they can't be responsible if a car salesman doesn't tell the truth!! DO YOU BELIEVE THIS? Unfortunately, the Kia dealer who sold the car is no longer there, what a surprise ......? We have the sticker which the sales person gave him to keep for his records which states 10 years/100,000 miles powertrain & 5 years/60,000 miles. The manuals given him were all of the manuals which come with the car when it is purchased new. And no one will back the warranty. They haven't heard the end to this story................ Buyers BEWARE!!!!

[RahX]

Doesn't sound like a problem with KIA at all, sounds like a crappy salesman looking to make a buck over telling someone the truth.

[budblaster]

Timing belts break and on a interference motor that means pistons eat valves not good. On the rio it is almost always the 5 speeds that strip the belts. Rapid rpm changes when changing gears,downshifting cause the belt to strip at the crank,there are updated cam sprockets on early rios that help.If you dont replaced you t-belt on interference motor when you are told to in owners manual then it breaks whos fault is it kia I think not. t-belt replacement goes by time or milage which ever comes first. If it breaks under warranty we repair them. I am a tech at a kia dealer. If you are over on time or milage for timing belt replacement its your problem

[jcwit]

The only comment I have to this is that when buying a used KIA, or any other car for that matter, many times there is not a manual.

However, that does not excuse the new owner from knowing just what maintence to take care of/do. In todays world with the internet it not to diffcult to find the answers. Spending a fairly large amount of money and then not knowing what the maintence schudule's are just showes a lack of responsibility. And to those that do not think a KIA, even a used one, costs a fair amount of money, well then just why are they shopping in the low end isle.

[david.laird]

I can't help but add my 2 cents worth to this discussion. I am presently repairing my stepdaughter's 2004 Rio for this very problem. No one to blame but myself for being unaware of the 60k service interval and the fact that she went 72k when it self-destucted. I have found numerous posts where the dealers are claiming that engines are destroyed and must be replaced. My advice to anyone getting such a diagnosis is to respectfully question it and ask for proof.

Some of the comments here stating that this is only the result of abuse is bunk. If as the operator of the vehicle you are honest enough with yourself and your technician that you were getting crazy stupid behind the wheel and had a failure during a high rpm event - then you likely can kiss the engine goodbye. One comment from a tech about the 5 speed being most common is very logical. In this case, the failure occurred on a low speed downshift. This resulted in 8 bent exhaust valves and an expense far short of a replacement engine.

I have serious issues with Kia and their apparent random administration of their warranties. I spent quite a few years as a tech, foreman, teacher, and dealer service manager - 30 years cummulative. I never witnessed anything like the crap I got into with the local dealer, lame-ass owner assistance and the district service manager that refused the courtesy of talking to me regarding an oil leak issue on this car well before the warranty expired. I have worked with numerous auto manufacturers over the years and these people are the worst I have ever encountered as a professional or a customer. If you have problems in-warranty and they take care of it without hassle, count your blessings. As for myself, I have purchased my last Kia. As for the timing belt... this one is mine alone.

Good luck to all!

[BrittanyL]

I just got a New Year's surprise! A $1200 bill to fix my engine (NOT replace it) after my timing belt broke. My car is a 2005 Rio, at just over 67K miles; so, the recommendation to replace the timing belt at 60K is no joke. Do it.

However, given how quickly mine crapped out, I would seriously recommend Kia roll back the clock on the timing belt change-out. Maybe at 40K or 50K miles? Just so we're not cutting it so close? Or maybe there's a way to fix the design, so that this isn't such an issue in the first place? Just sayin'...Go back to the drawing board, Kia.

Chicago, IL

[RahX]

I don't see any way to fix it other than redesign the engine to use a wider belt. The belt on the Rio is about 1/2 the size of any other timing belt.

[jcwit]

Originally Posted by RahX

I don't see any way to fix it other than redesign the engine to use a wider belt. The belt on the Rio is about 1/2 the size of any other timing belt.

Use a better than OEM belt like a Gates or a Dayco.

Moral of this story is to follow mfg's recommened schedule.

[RahX]

2003 Rio, 57k with a manual trans, the latest one to join you guys. The pics are pretty big so sorry about that.

[wglenntodd]

well while you / they have it apart get the water pump changed and their are 2 or 3 parts that i would change 1. Idle Pulley .2 Auto tensioner 3. drive belt pulley .If the auto tensioner is ok i would still change the pully on it too,All pulleys and a pump since its apart: God Bless and help you though that nightmare LOl Im doing my Sportage in 3000 miles

[RahX]

I work at a dealership and its all warranty so they are going to get just about everything replaced.

[mdocod]

First post here folks so go easy on me

Honestly, I think the teks and everyone has this backwards....

Allow me to elaborate:

I have a strong hunch that the timing belts are being destroyed AFTER a valve drops.

I have in front of me my Wife's 2002 Rio, appears that most of the valves are busted off and ground to chunks embedded in the surrounding metals.

The timing belt did not break. It did slip time in the incident though (I suspect this is how the damage spread to all cylinders.) The minimal effort required to crank over the cams on this engine suggests that the belt slipped as a result of something else breaking, not the other way around.

Incident occurred on the highway while accelerating from 65 to 75MPH in a mild uphill climb. Vehicle has ~120,000 miles on it.

Thoughts:
If "abuse" is high RPMs to this car, then "abuse" is the only possible way to achieve highway speeds inside of a weekend at this elevation (6500-7500 ft here). Keeping up with regularly accelerating traffic requires routine shift points in excess of 4000RPM. The situation described above (accelerating on highway on hill) would require that the thing down shift and push RPMs in excess of 4000. That said, both the previous owner (my Wife's Dad), and my Wife drove the thing like grandma most of the time anyways. At these elevations, naturally aspirated cars see more RPMs to get the same work done than most places. This is unavoidable but also should not be a problem. A properly designed engine can operate at redline under a moderate load for a very long time. It should also be pointed out, that more rpms and less load (the result of having less air to breath) would be considered by many teks to be better for an engine overall, since the forces on the crank would be lower.

I've seen original timing belts coming out of cars ~200,000 miles that are also still in good looking condition.

More likely that the manual tranny versions will break the timing belt. In the Auto (like my Wife's), when the engine crashes, it can come to a stop while the vehicle is still rolling down the road in "gear."


Eric

[jcwit]

If dropped valves are the problem where are all the threads regarding timing belt failure after replacing the timing belt.

The timing belt is the problem just as it was with the first generation Ford Escort, and other makes, those were not dropped but also timing belts.

If you do not believe its the timing belt and you refuse to go by KIA's maintence schedule don't change the belt, just don't raise cain when the engine trashes itself.

Sorry if this comes across pretty hard but there is way to much evidence of timing belt failure, not necessarly broken but also sheared teeth. Either one buts an end to the engine.

[mdocod]

Hi jcwit,

I see similar size and smaller size cog belts used in milling machines all the time. Those mills are being used to drive taps into steel under the torque of a 1-3HP VFD drive. It's very rare for the belts to break unless you crash the machine at high RPM, which would be similar to dropping a valve at high RPM in a car.

You bring up a good point about the lack of failure after replacement, I'll throw the dropped valve theory out, but that still leaves us with a answer = timing belt that doesn't add up.

Leads me to believe that it is still not the belt, or a valve dropping, but instead, the tensioner that is to blame, which would be replaced by anyone doing the belt (if they knew what they were doing). At high RPMs, maybe a weakening tensioner allows that belt to start flapping around and skipping a tooth here and there. Then it finally jumps a few teeth all at once and crashes valves which then leads to the timing belt breaking.

Strange though, the belt on he Kia we just had "explode" is 100% intact and feels like it has plenty of tension.

I truly believe that these broken timing belts and sheered off cogs are a symptom, not the cause of the problem. Sheering cogs is something that is highly likely under a crash scenario where there is momentum built up and a sudden jolt to a stop is created. Sheering cogs is highly unlikely under normal driving.

I don't mean to stir up any trouble, just trying to get to the bottom of this...

Eric