2002 330ci vs. audi S4

[ultimatedriver7]

Okay ill try to settle this one since people are pretty much split 50/50 on this discussion group.

First of all I think you need to be comparing apples to apples here. A coupe is not a four door sedan, and they appeal to different audiences. This should definately be a factor in a car buyers decision.

Second, as has been said, the 330Ci is not BMWs version of the superperformance compact car as the S4 is for Audi. The M3 is. The Audi was designed with that in mind and sadly doesn't hold a bar to the M3.

Lastly, Tiptronic sucks. There I said it. It does! It slows the car down far more than BMWs steptronic does. If you are comparing manual trannys, Audi sticks suck. BMW is world-renowned for having the best shifting manual trannys. The 330 may not be as fast as the Audi, but it shouldnt have to be. It was not designed as competition for the S4 as some people on this forum think. It is a much nicer car and doesnt look nearly as riced up as the S4 does. Don't even get me started on the S4 Avant...

If you guys like these Audis so much than kudos to you- us BMW owners really dont care. We coughed up the extra cash and bought a superior product. I dont see anyone praising the A4 2.8, the 330s closest competition from Audi.

Here is some additional info for all those who are interested in the REAL NUMBERS behind these two cars:

Base Price: Audi 38,900 BMW 45,900

Horsepower: Audi 250 BMW 333

Displacement CC: 2671 3246

Brakes: Audi Front 321 Rear 256 BWM Front 325 Rear 328

Weight: Audi 3593 BMW 3415

Weight distribution Front/Rear : Audi 59/41 BMW 50/50

Wheelbase: Audi 102.6 BMW 107.5 (the total length of the two cars is <.5 inches)

Acceleration 0-60: Audi 5.9 manual 6.5 auto BMW manual 4.8 SMG circa 4.5

Top speed: Audi 143 BMW 155 both limited

Standard wheels Audi 17 BMW 18 both incl. Z rated tires

you decide- but for the true sportsman the M3 is the obvious choice, and well worth the extra seven grand. My M3 priced out higher than that with options but ill still smoke my business partner in his Carrera 4, something you cant say about the Audi...



Sincerely,
Ultimatedriver7

01 330Ci
soon to be owner of 2002 M3

[gang$tarr]

Yeah but the S4 was meant to compare to the E36 M3... not the E46
And it is pretty close to an E36
That's why we're not comparing it to the E46 M3

and the name of the thread is 330ci vs. audi S4, so we're saying the S4 is better. Also just because it has 4 doors doesn't mean that it's less sporty, it's still comparable to a 2-door car

[F20C]

You are totally right that 4 door and 2 door appeal to different people with different needs. 4 door will offer items 2 door can't vice versa.

You are right again that 330Ci is not part of the M Division. I personaly wouldn't even bother taking a 330Ci up against S4. It's the same reason why I wouldn't take an A4 2.8 up against 330Ci. It's pointless and I already know the result. However this thread says 330Ci VS S4 and that's why we compare them.

BMW 330Ci MSRP $34,990 Loaded $41,010
Audi S4 MSRP $38,9000 Loaded $42,325
BMW M3 Coupe MSRP $45,900 Loaded $52,295

MSRP is the suggested sale price. Loaded is the price you pay after the options have been add up. The reason why options was added up because it makes the car similarly equipped. All prices are curtesy of Audiusa.com and BMWusa.com!

Now let's get back to topic. Did I ever compare S4 with M3? Why are we all of a sudden talking about M3? The only M3 S4 compare with is E36 M3. However just keep in mind new generation S4 comes in 16 months.

Tiptronic suck? I guess Porsche must suck because they use Tiptronic too.

S4 Manaul Mid 5's. Tiptronic Low 6's.
330Ci Manual Low 6's. Steptronic Mid-High 6's.

I don't see much difference in the time. They are still at least half second slower than Manual. Now if you want to talk about CVT Tiptronic and SMG2 then it's a different story. S4's 6 speed have long sloppy throw to it. I have to agree the manual on 330Ci is better than S4's. People just take them two for comparsion because of price. You can't get away from the fact that Loaded 330Ci cost only $1000 less than Loaded S4. How can S4 be call rice? Most people can't even tell what's a S4 and what's an A4. S4 doesn't come with Chrome Rims, Big Ass Bodykit or Spoiler. Nor does it come with sticker all over the car. Define the term rice! (This better be good because it's the most stupidest thing I ever heard)

Who says I don't like BMW? I loved their M Division just as much as you. I just can't stand people like you spreading false information about another brand. I will repeat it this again since you missed it for 2 times now.

BMW makes high quality cars. However it doesn't mean other brand name can't make them.

You seem to think just because it says BMW on the front means it's better than all these other cars out on the road today.

If I were you I would pick M3 over S4 as well. However that's not even what the thread is asking. The final price gap is more like $10,000. You probaly have no idea what 10K can do magic on a S4. With all that money I can easily push S4 to 400hp (RS4 Territory) but I'll be carrying 1000lbs less weight due to the fact it's a sedan and not a wagon. Still have plenty of money left for brake upgrades and 19 inch tire etc. Want to know what a 400hp S4 can do? It's capable of low 4's which will play with Z06 instead of Carrear4. The last paragraph should really belong in another thread. But it was just a reference for ultimatedriver to know.

[ultimatedriver7]

First of all, I am not paying MSRP for my M3. My loaded up car is going to cost me 47,500. Secondly, no one said anything about options. IF we are speaking strictly performance, none of the M3 options really boost it save the SMG.

Second, the acceleration times I quoted for the Audi are accurate. 0-60 5.9 manual and 6.5 auto. Third, my BMW with 29,832 miles on it runs a 0-60 time in 6.1 seconds with manual BONE STOCK. BMW is very conservative with its numbers.

Lastly, I think the vast majority of people like to keep their cars more or less stock for lots of significant reasons. My car is over one year old and has been driven very hard and no problems have arisen. You can't compare cars in the "what if" catagory because its simply not a fair judgement. What if i bought a honda 2000 and put a hundred thousand dollars into it? The S4 is a poor mans M3 plain and simple. And yes tiptronic does suck for the last time. Just because something costs less money doesnt mean its better, usually to the contrary. My new M3 verses your S4 will have less than a 5,000 dollar difference and will run all over your car all day long. Early reports say that the SMG gearbox does 0-60 in 4.3 seconds. Compete with that. BTW I wonder if you are aware of the top speed on the two cars when the limiter is removed. BMW stock 178 MPH on the new M3, Audi 156.

Is five thousand more dollars worth the envy resulting from the ownership of an M3? Yes. Is it worth the extra performance? Definately. Is it negligible? Of course. Finance it over six years if you have to and your payments will go up by 60 bucks a month. Or do the smart thing and bank the money first as I have done.

Oh and the next generation S4 will be laughable if built on the new A4 frame. Maybe it will compete with the Mercedes C320 lol. I rest my case.

UltimateDriver7
01 330ci
02 M3 on the way

[F20C]

What a bunch of bullshit. Loaded up car cost 47K? Tell me what you put onto your car then? For you probaly just the Car with PDI and Paint charge will run to $47,000. Which means you took a base M3 not a loaded M3. You suppose to pay under MSRP for the car? That sounds like another BS to me. Most dealership charged way over MSRP on M3 right now. It's basic supply and demand here. BMW only makes 3000 M3 Coupe a year from factory. There is at least 3 times that population that wants it. By the way Audi dealership will sell S4 way under MSRP. The reason being the new generation A4 just came out. A4 3.0 is a lot closer in comparsion to S4 than 2.8 ever was.

2002 M3 $45,900

Destination Charge $645

Topaz Blue Metallic $475

Cold Weather Package $700 (Heated Seats and Headlight Washer cleaning system found on loaded S4)

Premium Package $3,200 (Sunroof, Power Seats, Nappa leather interior, Rain-sensing windshield wipers and Automatic Headlight Control found on loaded S4)

Bi-Xenon headlights $700 (Standard on S4)

Harman Kardon premium sound system $675 (Sound system found on loaded S4)

As you can see I didn't add any junk or items not found on S4.

Total: $52,295

No one said anything about options because that's one part of BMW disadvantage. Loading up comparable equipment cost a lot of money. I wasn't talking about performance. I was talking about standard equipement.

Accurate? Like you been saying manufacture suggested time are conservative. You want to know the manufacture suggested time for 330Ci and M3?

Audi S4 is 5.9 for manual and 6.5 for tiptronic.
330Ci is 6.4 for manual and 7.0 for steptronic.
M3 Coupe is 4.8 for manual and 4.6 for SMG2.

Now I don't see Steptronic making the car any faster than Tiptronic do you? They are both .6 seconds off their manual time.

Your BMW runs 6.1 bone stock big deal. Some S4 runs 5.2 and 5.3 bone stock! That's the difference between real life timeslip and manufacture timeslip.

You want to keep it bone stock because it cost a whole lot of money to mod 330Ci into a serious performance machine. I will keep my bi-turbo V6 and tap into the free hp reserve in the car. It makes dollar and sense for you guys to stay put and Audi owner to go ahead. Afterall your engine can't net you 50hp and 100lb torque with simple $500 dollar chip upgrade. My car is 1 and half year old and it runs like new. The only problem I see it is long term reliabilty (10 years). Turbo engines just doesn't last as long as N/A engines. However in the short term (5 years) it will encounter no problems if properly taken care of. I didn't compare a S4 with 10K upgrades with M3. I just gave that to you for reference regarding the price gap. (See above quote)

What is a Honda 2000? If you are talking about my other car S2000. I can tell you the car is max out already with performance. Regular I/H/E will gain very minimal hp. Only way to tap more is through force induction. If you put $5000-8000 you can use the T4 Turbo and it will run with slightly modify internal at 8psi. The end result is a S2000 with 9000RPM and 400hp. One owner already kill a Z06 after being one of the prototype Turbo tester.

Tiptronic does not suck (See above) try telling Porsche that.

This thread isn't about M3 vs S4. Okay can you read? You seem to miss the sentence over and over. I said BMW build quality cars. However it doesn't mean other company can't build quality cars. Also I'll give you a comparsion. Ferrari 360 Modena Vs Chevy Corvette Z06. Did you know Z06 is faster and maintains a higher lateral G than Ferrari. But Z06 only cost 1/3 of what Ferrari charges for F360 Modena. However I know why Ferrari cost more than Z06. If you want to learn I can explain to you as well.

$5,000 difference that's if you ride with a manual power seats, no sunroof and no Xenon etc. (See above for the actual price of comparable standard equipment)

Let's see if you know your SMG2. Do you know how many stage there is? How to activate the last stage? How fast does it shift compare to Ferrari's F1 system?

You obviously don't understand what top speed limiter removed means. That means you drive up to whatever your car can give you. You probaly have seen clips of S4 doing 165mph+. Some people reach 170mph+ on the autobahn.

I didn't want to tell you but I am on the waiting list for SMG2 M3 as well. There is people on AF that can confirm that.

You know jack about the next generation S4. Do you even know what engine is powering it? If you don't know don't talk shit about it.

Last note this thread isn't about M3 vs S4 but rather 330Ci vs S4. If you want to discuss S4 vs M3 start another thread and I will be there.

[ultimatedriver7]

First of all, my car IS loaded. It has all the options save the reverse sensors because they look stupid and metallic paint because its jet black. And yes that number is correct. I have an excellent relationship with the local dealer because a) the general manager is a good friend of mine and b) this will be the sixth BMW I've bought from them. He figures that by selling me the car at this price he is doing his business a favor since it will advertise the car to a community that hasnt seen any new ones yet.

Dont talk to me about money- I wrote a check for my last car. If i wanted to load up the 330 with a bunch of aftermarket stuff I would. But there isnt any point. I will only have it another six months tops. The longest ive kept any car (save the Defender) in the last ten years is maybe 28 months. Say what you want about me. BTW I also have a Defender 90 that is loaded up with aftermarket stuff just so you dont think i am some tightwad.

What do you want to know about SMGII? I can probably tell you.

Lastly, the new A4 sucks as much as the new Mercedes C class. Since the S4 is based on the A4 the new S4 will likely suck as well.

As a final note, I think you are way out of line for questioning me all the time. I think I know how much my own car costs. I know about price gouging and all that. Seven years ago I bought an 8 series for about ten grand over MSRP because it was so rare at that time.

I think you should chill out. We are talking about cars here. If you like your S4 than I am happy for you. I like my 330 better. End of conversation.

[F20C]

Now it get's interesting. Please tell me how many people can get a great deal like you? You are lucky because you know the manager however most people don't. Now don't go around and spread rumors that you can buy a loaded M3 for 47K cause it doesn't happen.

I don't care if you are loaded or not. You spread false information then you get hammer.

It's funny how I ask you all the questions about SMG2 and you didn't answer. I know the answers but do you? Now don't try to buy time so you can search it online. That would be pathetic like what you have class yourself to be so far.

New A4 suck? You been saying whatever Audi make suck yet where is your proof? I don't see you providing any evidence to support your case. S4 is not an A4 with sports package okay. There is major difference and that's why it has a S badge in front. It's like do you call M3 a 330Ci with 18 inch wheels? You don't even know what's going to be on the new S4 so how can you make a valid judgement?

Nah when you have your head up BMW ass all the time. It's reasonable someone bring you back down to earth. Stop spreading false information and realize BMW isn't everything.

Who is the hot head here? The only hot head here I see is the one that's being constantly shoot down because he said false information. I am glad you like 330Ci better because for one. You don't even have a clue what S4 can do. Therefore you are just wasting a good quality car IMHO. Anyways if you want to live in your fantasy by all means go ahead. Just don't let me caught you spreading false information around.

[ultimatedriver7]

You didn't ask me anything specific about the SMGII therefore I cannot answer you. Think next time before you post a response- it makes others believe you have some intelligence. If I were you I would spend a little less time studying up on my Audi and a little more time learning how to speak the English language clearly because your narratives are very difficult to understand IMHO.

Get off my back and I'll get off yours.

BTW the reason the new Audi sucks is because despite a complete revision they were unable to make the car faster.

UltimateDriver7
'01 330Ci
soon to be '02 M3

[F20C]

Originally posted by F20C on 11-02-2001 09:46 AM
Let's see if you know your SMG2. Do you know how many stage there is? How to activate the last stage? How fast does it shift compare to Ferrari's F1 system?

Now who's the one that can't read? :finger: I can tell your english is still at grade 3 level. First you don't even understand the topic say 330Ci vs S4. Go back and learn some english and car knowledge before posting again.

Want me to get off your back. All you got to do is stop the bullshit and take your head out of BMW's ass. I know it ain't easy because to you BMW is the greatest no matter what.

Haha you make me laugh. Do you even know what the heck you are talking about? New Audi are bigger than BMW 3 Series inside and out. They have increase weight due to many factors. Such as stronger chassis with higher % bending rate, higher % flex rate and more safety features. Overall the platform it is on is stronger than current 3 Series.

[ultimatedriver7]

Like I said, the new Audis are still slow. One would expect a performance increase in an updated car, but not from Audi I guess.

Look, every Audi model is less expensive than its BMW counterpart. Say what you want but I think thats all Audi has ever been- a cheap substitute for BMW.

[gang$tarr]

Originally posted by ultimatedriver7

Lastly, I think the vast majority of people like to keep their cars more or less stock for lots of significant reasons. My car is over one year old and has been driven very hard and no problems have arisen. You can't compare cars in the "what if" catagory because its simply not a fair judgement. What if i bought a honda 2000 and put a hundred thousand dollars into it? The S4 is a poor mans M3 plain and simple. And yes tiptronic does suck for the last time. Just because something costs less money doesnt mean its better, usually to the contrary. My new M3 verses your S4 will have less than a 5,000 dollar difference and will run all over your car all day long. Early reports say that the SMG gearbox does 0-60 in 4.3 seconds. Compete with that. BTW I wonder if you are aware of the top speed on the two cars when the limiter is removed. BMW stock 178 MPH on the new M3, Audi 156.

sorry ultimate driver but you're just plain ignorant. Why do you keep comparing the S4 to an E46 M3 if we keep telling you in just about every post that we're comparing 330 vs. S4 (which the S4 obviously beats) how many times do we have say that the S4 isn't meant to compete with the E46!!! The S4 was made a couple years before and was made to compete with the E36 M3, and it does, it's pretty damn close. so just STOP comparing it to an E46. Poor mans M3? I doubt it, i think the prices were pretty close (E36 vs S4)

Once again i gotta say comparing an E46 M3 to an S4 is just stupid... my family has never owned an Audi, but most of our cars have been BMWs, so i should be biased towards BMW.... but the fact that an S4 beats a 330, and competes closesly with the E36, which it was made to do. It's just so obvious, i don't even know what we're talkin bout anymore

[ultimatedriver7]

Hey everyone be sure to keep responding to my posts from several days ago okay? I know that the comparison is between the 330Ci and the S4 but it shouldn't be and thats what I've been saying all along. It isn't a fair competition but I am sure you all know that without me having to tell you. The S4 is a better performer than the 330 for slightly more money. I have said that from the beginning. However these two cars are not competition for one another and therefore shouldnt be compared. A Chevy Tahoe LT is also competition for the S4 under your money guidelines but are they really competition for one another? Please think about what you say before posting any more stupid comments.

[EdgarFan659]

Lets settle this in a cage match - WWF style. No disqualifications. Anything goes.

[gang$tarr]

Originally posted by ultimatedriver7
Hey everyone be sure to keep responding to my posts from several days ago okay? I know that the comparison is between the 330Ci and the S4 but it shouldn't be and thats what I've been saying all along. It isn't a fair competition but I am sure you all know that without me having to tell you. The S4 is a better performer than the 330 for slightly more money. I have said that from the beginning. However these two cars are not competition for one another and therefore shouldnt be compared. A Chevy Tahoe LT is also competition for the S4 under your money guidelines but are they really competition for one another? Please think about what you say before posting any more stupid comments.

:huh:

okay, first of all we've been saying the whole time that the 330 is no competion for the S4.... but you've been comparing it to an E46 M3, and that shouldn't be compared with an S4 either. It was meant to compare with the E36 M3, so it's pointless for you to be saying that the new M3 is alot better.
What money guidelines? Similar price range is just one part of a car competing with another. There are categories, etc. that the car has to fit in. An E46 M3 and S4 are comparable, they are in a similar price range, they were both built tuned and to be sporty, the only difference is one is 4 door and one is 2 door... that doesn't change anything
You can compare an IS300 4-door to a 330ci coupe, it doesn't matter, they're still in the same category and compete with each other

F20C back me up?

[F20C]

Originally posted by ultimatedriver7
Like I said, the new Audis are still slow. One would expect a performance increase in an updated car, but not from Audi I guess.

Look, every Audi model is less expensive than its BMW counterpart. Say what you want but I think thats all Audi has ever been- a cheap substitute for BMW.

You still didn't answer my questions regarding the SMG2. Now let's see you have bought yourself extra 3 day's worth of time. What have you come up for your research project eh?

Anyways the answer to your question. I guess I shouldn't expect BMW to increase performance when they re-design a car either. Let's just talk about your beloved 3 Series. When BMW upgrade from E36 to E46 what happen do you know? You really should know your BMW better.

1998 E36 328is 190 hp, 206 tq, 3142 lbs
2000 E46 328Ci 193 hp, 206 tq, 3197 lbs.

Mind you the engine in E46 is a bit smoother however it does not make up the extra 55 lbs gained. Therefore E46 when introduce is actually slower than it's E36 counterpart. So what do you have to say about this mr ultimatedriver?

A couple things were gained when new A4 came out

1. Performance were gained due to higher output engine
2. Safety feature were gained
3. Handling has improve because of structure rigidty gained.
4. Comfort was gained because it's a much bigger car.
5. WEIGHT gained because of all the new things put into the car.

Audi = cheap subsitute for BMW? So does that mean BMW is cheap subsitute for Benz? Since rich people will buy Benz over BMW for reasons that's not car related.