VTEC vs. SR20DE

[CHRIS200T]

Originally posted by THE4TH
you guys can argue till your blue in the face... as it seems you already are.. both honda and nissan have their own ass kickin stuff...
all i know is i never seen any nissan look as sweet as a nice 2003 Acura NSX........mmmmhhhh mhhhhhh

Vary nice looking but for the price. A dam rip off! and for what it is. Its under powered. I am sure a SC430 Old man driving toyota is faster than a NSX. I raced one and when I got traction at about 70MPH I thought he shifted to Reverse. I was like wowwww He must be imbarised. I know he was after some choise words I had for him at the next light.

But back on subject and thay are nice looking cars but way way over priced. I think what for about 1/2 the price you can get a VET that look pritty cool and will give up a better fight on the street... I am sure a much better fight.

Chris Allen (North San Deago.)
96 200SX GTIR Powerd 497WHP on C16 351WHP on 91 oct pump gas
92 Sentra SE-R Almost stock
91 NX2000 SR20VE VVL Powered 177WHP almost stock (Girlfriends Car)

[GTS-4 Ben]

how many 1800 Honda engines come factory with over 200HP?....

[Moppie]

Originally posted by GTS-4 Ben
how many 1800 Honda engines come factory with over 200HP?....

None from the factory.

This thread has unforunatly got way of track, if you want to compare a B18c or B16a with an SR20det then your wasteing your time.
The SR20det is a larger capacity engine, and oh yeah it has a bloody great Turbo hanging off the side of it. It will always have more hp, more Torque, and in the same car go faster in a straight line.

However someone wanted to compare the B series engines to the N/A Versions of the SR20.
In which case the SR20 is only just a better motor if you compare it to the non-VTEC versions found in the old Preludes/Accords and newer base model Integras.
However it can be found lacking if you want to compare it to the VTEC versions, but then theres a good reason for that.
So someone bought up the heavily misunderstood and little known VVL versions of the SR20 and SR16.
Ok, both have more peak hp than Honda engines, but in the real world in a street car that dosn't mean squat.
We've already had one member with a SR16ve powered Pulsar say he gets beaten by B16a powered civics, and its clear from the dyno plot of the SR20ve that was posted that it might have lots of peak hp, but it lacks a useable and stable power curve. Peak hp is useless if you can't get the engine to rev there when its under load.

I have driven many SR20 powered cars, and if it wasnt for a dork of a car dealer I would currently be driving one. They are a great engine, lots of Torque, very smooth etc. But from the factory they do lack the revablity of the B16a/18c, and they dont have anything like the same level of throttle response.

It also appears after having a good read of the net (and the G20 Forums) that the SR20 is not very well suited to accepting wild cam grinds. The valve train geometry dosn't like cams with lots of lift, and so expensive roller rocker sets have to be used in order to actualy get any hp out of them. Where as the B series engine will take extremly aggresive cam profiles with only a change of valves and springs.



So, to sum it all up:
We can't compare the Turbo versions of the SR20 with the B series engines. Its clear the SR20det is a better performance engine when Turbo'd
We can compare the N/A Versions of the SR20 and B series, and it appears that from the factory the SR20 is a better engine the early non-VTEC versions of the B series, but losses out if you want to tune them.
And the SR20 deffintly falls by the road side when compared with the VTEC versions.
Unless you want to compare the VVL versions, which are a great engine, but lack one simple thing. The Millions of dollars and thousands of hours Honda has spent on developing VTEC, and in doing so producing some of the best head port and combustion chamber designs ever. As a result the SR20/16vl might have more peak hp, but it lacks the smooth rev ablity of the B series engine's, or the instant throttle response, or the extremly flat and very long torque curve, and very smooth power curve.


and CHRIS200T I highly doubt you raced an NSX and beat it like it was going backwards. Especialy if you did it at over 70mph.
It sounds like the NSX driver had a good laugh and then backed off.

[CHRIS200T]

Originally posted by Moppie


None from the factory.


and CHRIS200T I highly doubt you raced an NSX and beat it like it was going backwards. Especialy if you did it at over 70mph.
It sounds like the NSX driver had a good laugh and then backed off.

You have no idea!!!!!!! My car revs out in 4th and 5th like yours rev's 2nd. Go drive your car rev it out in 2nd gear and wish you where in 4th & 5th gear and that will pritty much disribe how my car drive's. about 415 Crank HP Front Wheel drive aka little drive train loss car waigh's about 2400lbs. I know the guy was in it to win it becouse he was pissed as hell.. All I could do is laugh at him.. and yes by how rapidly his car disapeared in my rear view from 70+ MPH it looked like I took off on him as if he was siting still..

My race video to give you an idea. ME vs SS Impalia 5.7L V8 on NOS (so he was claiming)
This run was almost a year ago running on 92 oct pump gas at 15 PSI of boost. making somewhere around 350-360 WHP


Your claim about expencive Roller Rockers for DE motor's Thay come stock on allot of SR20DE and stock on all VE motor's so no its not expencive. I picked up a entire motor from a local yard here and droped it in my friends older 91 sentra for 250 bucks. If thats expencive to you sorry to hear that.

Take a look
SR20DE 97up all had roller rocker's and the motors are easy to find here in the state's

You also where talking about the power band of VE motor vs B16 motor. Well SR20VE has way more usable power. 125 lb/ft of torque at 2000 rpm and goes up from there. a B16 will never make that anywhere in its powerband.

PS: I just raced one of my friend's who has a B18C1 Integra 170HP motor in his 92 CX Civic Hatchback witch is all of 2100 lbs and our NX2k at 2450 lbs . Out of the hole even. 2nd gear shift to top of 2nd gear 3/4 of a car lenth shift to 3rd another 1/4 car lenth GS-R's seem to have a good 3rd gear. Could not get any further then a car ahead but he was never able to gain any ground back. race was tell about 105-110 mph

So I sugest you try one of this car's befor you claim it has no power band or any pool. I have driven both . Meny different honda's from stock to moded to swap's.

[91HBSi]

Originally posted by CHRIS200T


You have no idea!!!!!!! My car revs out in 4th and 5th like yours rev's 2nd. Go drive your car rev it out in 2nd gear and wish you where in 4th & 5th gear and that will pritty much disribe how my car drive's. about 415 Crank HP Front Wheel drive aka little drive train loss car waigh's about 2400lbs. I know the guy was in it to win it becouse he was pissed as hell.. All I could do is laugh at him.. and yes by how rapidly his car disapeared in my rear view from 70+ MPH it looked like I took off on him as if he was siting still..

My race video to give you an idea. ME vs SS Impalia 5.7L V8 on NOS (so he was claiming)
This run was almost a year ago running on 92 oct pump gas at 15 PSI of boost. making somewhere around 350-360 WHP


Your claim about expencive Roller Rockers for DE motor's Thay come stock on allot of SR20DE and stock on all VE motor's so no its not expencive. I picked up a entire motor from a local yard here and droped it in my friends older 91 sentra for 250 bucks. If thats expencive to you sorry to hear that.

Take a look
SR20DE 97up all had roller rocker's and the motors are easy to find here in the state's

You also where talking about the power band of VE motor vs B16 motor. Well SR20VE has way more usable power. 125 lb/ft of torque at 2000 rpm and goes up from there. a B16 will never make that anywhere in its powerband.

PS: I just raced one of my friend's who has a B18C1 Integra 170HP motor in his 92 CX Civic Hatchback witch is all of 2100 lbs and our NX2k at 2450 lbs . Out of the hole even. 2nd gear shift to top of 2nd gear 3/4 of a car lenth shift to 3rd another 1/4 car lenth GS-R's seem to have a good 3rd gear. Could not get any further then a car ahead but he was never able to gain any ground back. race was tell about 105-110 mph

So I sugest you try one of this car's befor you claim it has no power band or any pool. I have driven both . Meny different honda's from stock to moded to swap's.

Are you not from an English speaking country or do you just spell stuff that way on purpose? Not saying you are an idiot or anything, cause it is plain to see that you display some brilliance; just wondering...

[Morpheus XIII]

Originally posted by 91HBSi
Are you not from an English speaking country or do you just spell stuff that way on purpose? Not saying you are an idiot or anything, cause it is plain to see that you display some brilliance; just wondering...

I think it has become a type of AF 'policy' to try not to comment on a member's style of typing. But I know that you didn't mean any ill by mentioning it.

[Moppie]

Originally posted by CHRIS200T



Your claim about expencive Roller Rockers for DE motor's Thay come stock on allot of SR20DE and stock on all VE motor's so no its not expencive.

Yes, all the later versions of the SR20 engines came with Roller rockers, but it means you have to either get a later engine, or set of rockers from a latter engine if you have an older engine. (which a lot of people still do). And even then, the factory roller rocker set up will still not handle very wild cam grinds, certainly nothing as wild as the B series engines will.

And I know exactly how well my car revs out in 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 4th. It will quite comfertbly hit the limiter in all 4 gears with out any trouble, and I know it would hit the limiter in 5th if it didnt hit the speed limiter first.

You sound like you know what your talking about, but only becasue it sounds like your repeating what others have told you.
And im not interested in your claims of 400+hp in your car, ohh so what.
I know its possible, and not that hard to get out of an SR20det, but I also know what work is required, and how much money it takes.

I also know my way around an engine, and have driven a good collection of exotic and highly tuned cars. And, well its nice to know what you think about the SR engines, but I happen to not only think that your wrong, but also know it.

[CHRIS200T]

Originally posted by Moppie


Yes, all the later versions of the SR20 engines came with Roller rockers, but it means you have to either get a later engine, or set of rockers from a latter engine if you have an older engine. (which a lot of people still do). And even then, the factory roller rocker set up will still not handle very wild cam grinds, certainly nothing as wild as the B series engines will.

And I know exactly how well my car revs out in 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 4th. It will quite comfertbly hit the limiter in all 4 gears with out any trouble, and I know it would hit the limiter in 5th if it didnt hit the speed limiter first.

You sound like you know what your talking about, but only becasue it sounds like your repeating what others have told you.
And im not interested in your claims of 400+hp in your car, ohh so what.
I know its possible, and not that hard to get out of an SR20det, but I also know what work is required, and how much money it takes.

I also know my way around an engine, and have driven a good collection of exotic and highly tuned cars. And, well its nice to know what you think about the SR engines, but I happen to not only think that your wrong, but also know it.

Your intitaled to your worng opionion

[GTS-4 Ben]

The SR isn't all that great.. give me a RB anyday

Alot easier to get the power out of a RB20DET!

When I look at the N1 models of the SR20DE and VE, thats when I love nissan. They are amazing!

What engine/ car is the best touring car in England?

[Moppie]

Originally posted by GTS-4 Ben
The SR isn't all that great.. give me a RB anyday

Ill totaly agree with you on that one! The RB is an awsome engine. Theres nothing like the howl of a well tuned and balanced inline 6. :sun:

As for the N1 versions of the VE, well no one seems to know very much about them.
I do know they have lots of hp, 200hp from a 1600 is impressive, but have you ever seen one? And where are all the N1 powered pulsars?
You would think surly several would have made it to our shores, amongst all the other japas we get.
No, this sounds like a very highly tuned and very limited production engine, made for road legal race cars. Basicly Nissan taking advantage of the SR's strong bottom end so they could run a very highly tuned and very high compression cylinder head. Basicly an engine that is only at home on the race track, and will only run on the high octane fuel avliable in japan.
Im quite sure that if Honda had seen a need they could have quite easily done the same thing.
After all give me $5,000 and Ill go buy a set of cams, headers and a programable ECU and easily make 200hp from my B16a. Its not that hard to do, and it will run, and run well on only 96 octane fuel.


But if anyone has any links to sites on the SR16ve N1 then I would love to see them! I want to learn more about this engine.
(it would go rather well in my kit car you see...... )

[GTS-4 Ben]

I want to see someone do a Nissan for the FWD N/A under 2L class for NZ.

I think a Nissan can beat a 12.9

[MIVEC]

Hi, i am a new member and live in Ireland. I imported a Pulsar VZ-R from Japan with the SR16 engine block.

In relation to which is faster between the B16A and this, none of you have taken into account that the SR16 is 100 kilos heavier !!!

The Pulsar VZ-R (N1) road car is the most powerful production 1.6 N/A engine in the world ever, far superior to any V-TEC ever. The VZ-R puts out 200 BHP and 135 ft/lb from a 1.6 N/A.

It doesnt break traction when it hits its powerband and it only seems to hit it at 6,800 RPM. At this point, the whole engine and exhaust note changes.

I've had V-TEC's and MIVEC's before this car.

[d-signed]

well where do i start?
first off i guess i should say that currently the suzuki bikes make more hp and torque than any other four stroke mass produced piston engine. The new rotary is about to have higher specific output than any other car engine- ever. and no one said anything about two strokes. And when was the last time you saw someone towing with their S2000? And the spoon civic would be a valid comparison if they made more than 1000 of them and for about the same price. and does anyone care that the faster accelerating (as in the speed which it accelerates a given car) engine will be the one with more area under the curve? the way to guestimate this is to compare dyno charts- has anyone done this? No!
so stop bickering and get some facts!

[d-signed]

one more thing. no car can match the viper for looks-italian or otherwise. And for less than an NSX too! for the price probably the miata, elise, or rx-7.

[Moppie]

Originally posted by d-signed
the way to guestimate this is to compare dyno charts- has anyone done this? No!
so stop bickering and get some facts!

There some dyno charts posted back a few pages, and I have presented plenty of facts.
Theres even been another N1 pulsar owner say in a post that despite having 200hp it occurs accross such a narrow rev range that he can only just keep up with SiR Civics. (which have a much flatter Torque curve, and more area under the graph.)


And I am still waiting for someone to post more than just peak hp numbers for the SR16ve. It seems no one actualy knows anything about it.