Sometimes it will not crank over

[BabylonBoB]

I have a 2000 Intrigue that 0casionally will not crank over. It can happen any were at any time. It happens about 3 times a week (I start it about 4 times a day). All the lights and accessories work, it just won't crank. Some times it only takes a second try, sometimes it takes 35 tries.

When it starts it runs fine. Some times the "Service Engine" light comes on for two days and then goes away. When I get time to check for codes, there are no codes.

4 dealers latter (3 Buick and 1 Chevy) and 1 starter solenoid later it does the same thing. It always works at the dealers (20 starts over 6 hours) and no codes.

Any ideas where the mystery lies.
Any direction would be appreciated
Thanks

[BabylonBoB]

Well the third shop seems to have found the answer (third time's a charm).

If the ignition switch was held in the crank position when the car would not crank over, the security light is the only light left on.

Three false codes were thrown (two crank sensors and one cam sensor).

The mechanic said its your ignition switch.

Changed the switch.

Car has been starting on every first try for weeks.

It always a simple to the person who already knows the right answer.

[MookaMobile]

My 99 did the same thing. Long hard starts (intermittent), occassionaly engine light. When the light was on, took it to Auto parts store for diag, and got cam code, replaced cam sensor. Started happening again, was crank sensor, replaced, problem never came back. Hard starts were related to the engine not finding the position due to faulty sensor, but after 5 second crank, it would start and the Service Light would come on and the car ran ok. It was when the light was off I had problems starting and stalling. Seems like when one sensor goes bad, the computer bypasses it and relies on the other. The sensors combined are cheaper than a starter, and never found anything wrong with the starter. I hear these sensors go out in most Intrigues, and about the same time too. Mine went at 60K, one right after the other. Car would slow down to stall one day, next day be fine. Anyway, maybe the mechanic did find the right prob, just if you have probs again, it is probably the sensors. I had issues for 4 months before we got the sensor code. Mechanics also told me if it was the sensors, the car wouldn't start. I think that was a lie, I drove it for 4 more months before finally replacing the sensors. They are easy to swap out, so don't let any mechanic tell you it is a $200 labor job.

Originally Posted by BabylonBoB

Well the third shop seems to have found the answer (third time's a charm).

If the ignition switch was held in the crank position when the car would not crank over, the security light is the only light left on.

Three false codes were thrown (two crank sensors and one cam sensor).

The mechanic said its your ignition switch.

Changed the switch.

Car has been starting on every first try for weeks.

It always a simple to the person who already knows the right answer.

[BabylonBoB]

Maybe the third time was not a charm.

Twice this week the car would not crank over (just dead silents when the key was turne to the start position) but all the lights would come on.

The first time I held the key on start and in about 2 second it crank right over and ran fine.

The second time I was not so lucky. It took 15 tries and I had removed and re-installed the key three times. I finaly started and ran fine.

And both times it sent out the three faulse codes (one cam, and two crank sensors).

Oh well, the beat goes on.

[MookaMobile]

I suggest just replace both sensors, since you get both codes. If you do the work yourself, you will only shell out about $160. You may have to go to the dealer for one of the sensors, I can't recall which sensor I couldn't find easily. I got one at AutoZone, and the other I couldn't get anywhere but a dealer (though this was 2 years ago).
Most mechanics will tell you these can't be the problem (engine sensors are not supposed to go bad apparently) without doing an expensive diagnosis on the vehicle. It could be just a flaw in the design, but a lot of people have had this problem, and it was fixed by new sensors. However, they seem to go bad pretty regularly (about every 30-50,000 miles). I replaced mine at 60-70K, and am now getting the same problems at 90K.

Originally Posted by BabylonBoB

Maybe the third time was not a charm.

Twice this week the car would not crank over (just dead silents when the key was turne to the start position) but all the lights would come on.

The first time I held the key on start and in about 2 second it crank right over and ran fine.

The second time I was not so lucky. It took 15 tries and I had removed and re-installed the key three times. I finaly started and ran fine.

And both times it sent out the three faulse codes (one cam, and two crank sensors).

Oh well, the beat goes on.

[BabylonBoB]

When I first took the car to my first Buick dealer they read the codes and said that only one of the crankshaft sensors was bad. They replaced it and the next morning it did the same thing. Put the key in turned it to start and silence with the exception of a click of a relay in the dashboard.

This morning it took 12 tries before the starter would turn. As soon as the starter turned the engine started right up and ran fine. At lunchtime it took 65 tries and I removed and reinserted the key four times. As soon as the starter turned the engine started right up.

I called the last dealer and asked about the sensors for the crankshaft and the cam sensors. They said if I had a bad cam sensor the starter would turn but the engine would not start. And if the two crankshaft sensors were bad the starter would turn but the engine would not start. There would be no coordination of spark and piston placement.

So I will try another shop and see what they say. If they indicate a part that was already replaced I will show them my bill from the last shops and bring the car to another mechanic.

[slb04786]

Did you ever find a resolution, outside of replacing the starter. I have the exact same problem. It has been happening for about a year now. Warm weather seems worse that cold weather. I finally put a jumper wire on the starter wire (Smaller of the two)and ran it into the dash of the vehicle. Of course it worked fine for 2-3 days. When it did finally act up I put my meter on the jumper. With the key in the start position I am getting +12 volts. In the run postion I get nothing. This leads me to surmise the starter drive is the culprit. Not being one to replace parts if I can fix the old one here is my question. Do these starters have a mechanical switch that keeps the starter from turning over until the starter drive is fully activated or is this controlled through modern technology (electronics, sensors, etc)? I am fine with working on the starter either way. Just wondering what to expect when I do get the time to remove and disassemble the starter. It would appaer to me to be something in the starter drive. Anyone else have any experience taking the starter apart. Any surprises?
Thanks,
Stan

[BNaylor]

Originally Posted by slb04786

Did you ever find a resolution, outside of replacing the starter. Stan

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