Originally delivered to...?

[BRX880]

I was wrong assuming #073 was originally a german car.
Reading the Christies offer from 12/2003 all over again, I recognized the words "one owner"...
http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbul...15&postcount=1
The car was purchased as a standard F1 and was later converted after McLaren found a solution for the customers demands...
So #073 was originally a swiss car!

[Peloton25]

The brothers that owned #011 and #073 were supposedly from a South American country. Perhaps Brazil?

I don't think the brother who had chassis #011 was an original owner though as that car was for sale by Taylor & Crawley at one point. A photo of it there for sale appeared in the 15th April, 1998 issue of Autocar. It was wearing UK reg place M351 HPM at that time. Article stated the car was a 1,000-mile 1994 M-plate road car for £540,000. How nice - a discount... those didn't last long.

A snapshot of an advertisement on the page also mentions the cars as "McLaren F1 - Metallic Black, Grey interior, 1,200 miles, EC tax paid. £540,000. At the time T&C also had #06R listed at £500,000 and #16R listed at £450,000.

>8^)
ER

[BRX880]

What are you trying to say?
That #011 wasn't a UK car originally, or that #073 wasn't a swiss one originally...

[mini magic]

I don't think it was Brazil. When i get home i'll let you know what country it was. It was some obscure one

[BRX880]

Maybe Venezuela...?

[Peloton25]

Originally Posted by BRX880

What are you trying to say?
That #011 wasn't a UK car originally, or that #073 wasn't a swiss one originally...

On the first point, I would say that #011 was possibly a UK car originally. I really was trying to contrast the fact that while #073 had a single owner, chassis #011 had at least two, it would be safe to assume.

Yes on the second point - while it may have worn Swiss registration, the owner was from Venezuela as you suggested:

The F1 pictured here was first delivered in 1998 to one of two brothers from Venezuela who both owned McLaren F1s (the other was S/N 011) and kept their cars at the factory in England. S/N 073 features the 691“hp LM-spec engine and performance package.

Taken from:

http://www.ferraris-online.com/pages...SCM_200408_ECP

Now, do you mark that one VZ on your list? I dunno - I probably would.

>8^)
ER

[BRX880]

Nope, as I don't think that this car was ever in Venezuela!
Same goes for the plate which should have been a swiss one from the very beginning when it was first road registered...
It's not uncommon for rich foreigners to live in Switzerland due to very low taxes!

I would rather tend to mark it as a UK car, as it was kept at the Mclaren factory the first time.
But then again, I really can't imagine that it had a UK registration nor that it was driven in its early stages...

My theory on that one is, based on some articles and the Christies offer, that it was purchased and stored for the time being at Mclaren while they were working on the solutions for the customers demands. After the refit, the car came to Switzerland and was road registered for the first time!
Like I said, that's just my point of view...

[Peloton25]

I would agree - the cars probably never went "home". But to keep the story straight, perhaps it deserves some mention where the info is available, as in this case?

>8^)
ER

[BRX880]

Yep, absolutely

I think that #073 isn't just an awesome F1 but also very special in terms of owner-car-relation!

I mean, how many other F1's were/are out there where its owner is from country A, lives in country B and it was originally kept in country C...?

[BRX880]

Just in case someone wonders about the GTR’s, I added them in the original post.

[mini magic]

XP4 was New Zealand when McLaren were done with it

001 might have gone to Switzerland new

023 was Japan

[BRX880]

hmm... I always thought that #001 was McLarens own car.
At least Tiff Needel said so in a vid I remember...

[gerd]

No McLaren was delivered new to the US. All the Ameritech cars were delivered to Germany as McLarens, imported illegally/improperly into the US (see previous post with DOT memo) IMHO through Ameritech. When Pacific Insurance asked DOT about the double VIN's; that Petrik was insuring his car as a McLaren, not an Ameritech, the memo was issued. EPA in Ann Arbor, MI,. when asked to clarify what all seven cars were - Ameritech, JK Technologies, or McLarens - stated in a letter that the cars were issued EPA certificates as McLarens. The certificates were issued to JK because Fritz was not an ICI. Fritz/Ameritech listed all the AMeritech versions as 1995 to avoid OBDII. Leno's came in as the 8th under the JK certificates, listed as a 1995 but is a 1994. There are several other F1s that were EPA"d under the JK certificates DOT acknowledged that Fritz/Ameritech was not a RI, and JK did the certificates, sent the cars to Ann Arbor (only two cars went). Pretty confusing, eh? But as a LAs Vegas owner of an illegal 1996 Ferrari F50 told me, "$110,000.00 will buy you legality."(it did for him)

[Peloton25]

Originally Posted by gerd

No McLaren was delivered new to the US. All the Ameritech cars were delivered to Germany as McLarens, imported illegally/improperly into the US (see previous post with DOT memo) IMHO through Ameritech. When Pacific Insurance asked DOT about the double VIN's; that Petrik was insuring his car as a McLaren, not an Ameritech, the memo was issued. EPA in Ann Arbor, MI,. when asked to clarify what all seven cars were - Ameritech, JK Technologies, or McLarens - stated in a letter that the cars were issued EPA certificates as McLarens. The certificates were issued to JK because Fritz was not an ICI. Fritz/Ameritech listed all the AMeritech versions as 1995 to avoid OBDII. Leno's came in as the 8th under the JK certificates, listed as a 1995 but is a 1994. There are several other F1s that were EPA"d under the JK certificates DOT acknowledged that Fritz/Ameritech was not a RI, and JK did the certificates, sent the cars to Ann Arbor (only two cars went). Pretty confusing, eh? But as a LAs Vegas owner of an illegal 1996 Ferrari F50 told me, "$110,000.00 will buy you legality."(it did for him)

While the cars may have traveled through other countries and some certainly had different owners before arriving in the USA, it is my understanding that Ralph was the original owner of #074. Maybe not #055 - I don't know the story there - but that was what I heard about chassis #074. Maybe it didn't land in the USA right off the production line, but it must have been timed very closely based on when the car was built and when the Ameritech F1s began to arrive here in the USA.

Also, I need to correct something I said earlier, as the story we were told was that Mr Beal was indeed the original owner of #042 and that he acquired that car after seeing it in the Park Lane showroom in London.

Here's an old post I found on the forum from an associate of his confirming most of that information:

YES THE CAR WAS BUILT IN 1995 AND SET ON SHOWROOM FLOOR AT MCLAREN, YES 80TO 90 THOUSAND. YES CARTY BEAL IS THE FIRST OWNER.AND YES CHASSIS #042.

The 80 to 90 thousand was in reference to the cost to repair the broken transmission shaft from McLaren.

>8^)
ER

[BRX880]

Originally Posted by gerd

No McLaren was delivered new to the US. All the Ameritech cars were delivered to Germany as McLarens, imported illegally/improperly into the US (see previous post with DOT memo) IMHO through Ameritech. When Pacific Insurance asked DOT about the double VIN's; that Petrik was insuring his car as a McLaren, not an Ameritech, the memo was issued. EPA in Ann Arbor, MI,. when asked to clarify what all seven cars were - Ameritech, JK Technologies, or McLarens - stated in a letter that the cars were issued EPA certificates as McLarens. The certificates were issued to JK because Fritz was not an ICI. Fritz/Ameritech listed all the AMeritech versions as 1995 to avoid OBDII. Leno's came in as the 8th under the JK certificates, listed as a 1995 but is a 1994. There are several other F1s that were EPA"d under the JK certificates DOT acknowledged that Fritz/Ameritech was not a RI, and JK did the certificates, sent the cars to Ann Arbor (only two cars went). Pretty confusing, eh? But as a LAs Vegas owner of an illegal 1996 Ferrari F50 told me, "$110,000.00 will buy you legality."(it did for him)

Thanks for this interesting little story
If I get you right, all the 7 Ameritech F1's were originally delivered to Germany - right? Do you know by chance if they had an actual owner there or were they just “parked” in Germany at some exotic car dealer waiting for there delivery to the US?

On the other hand I’m a bit confused now as #042 was an Ameritech F1 as well and it should have been bought new from the Park Lane Showroom...

As you said no F1 was originally delivered to the US, what about #072?


Bjoern

Btw: Just in case someone hasn’t noticed yet, I edited/updated my original post. I think it is now better arranged and represented more clearly. It is also much shorter due to some scroll- bar-fields. It furthermore should now provide more information for someone totally new to this topic!