Wanna get rid of the power steering... Possible?

[oedipussy]

Hey, I was just wondering if it's possible to, say, remove the power steering pump on a 1958 Desoto to change it to manual steering? Or is there more to it than that? How about the same method for power brakes? I don't care for either - I'd prefer if they were both manual systems. Thanks for any help you can give me...

[KiwiBacon]

Why?

You could swap out your steering rack (or box depending on what system it has) for a manual one if such a thing is available. But running a powered rack or box without fluid is a very bad idea for many reasons.

Without power brakes you (or someone else) will die.

[curtis73]

Its not really reasonable to just remove the power part for several reasons. With the steering, the ratio is different with power and non power systems. Without power assist the ratio needs to be much lighter so you don't need to be a body builder to steer the car. On the other hand, if you don't tighten up the ratio when you add power assist its way too light and the car feels floaty and slow to handle. I feel that if you just remove the power steering pump, you'll be very disappointed with the results and your car will be impossible to park, steer, and control at anything less than highway speed.

A similar property is in play with power brakes. The length of the lever at the brake pedal is totally different. Without power assist, the lever needs to be longer so that your foot can apply the pressure that is missing from the power assist part. To simulate how it will be, try stopping a car without the engine running. Once the vacuum runs out, your foot can't provide enough input to stop the car. Even with the proper lever and braking system, manual brakes require a buttload of input. I suggest you drive a car originally equipped with manual brakes before you decide to make the switch.

[oedipussy]

Thanks for the help.

OK, so basically it's not worth doing then? Sounds like I'd have to completely change both systems...

My other car has manual steering/brakes and I've never had any problem with it. That's how I learned to drive. I can't adjust to having the car do all of the work for me.

Originally Posted by KiwiBacon

Why?

Without power brakes you (or someone else) will die.

Why? Because I'm used to manual steering/brakes and I prefer it that way. With the power assist it feels like I'm not even driving the damn thing, I just finished restoring it but now that the newness has faded away I've gone back to using my beat-up '63 Dodge 880 because it actually takes some muscle to drive.

So it's power brakes or death then? I totally don't agree with that. Have you ever actually driven a car with manual brakes before? The only difference is that they're a lot less touchy than power brakes. I can't get used to that whole "touch the brake pedal slightly and come to a complete stop" way of driving. I'd be much less likely to get in an accident without the power assist...

[UncleBob]

drag race cars usually "down grade" to ditch the power steering. Usually with a pinto or mustang2 rack, but you have to calculate the alignment issues, angles of tie rods, fabricate linkage to the column.....even if you do it yourself, its not cheap.

[Moppie]

Originally Posted by oedipussy

Why? Because I'm used to manual steering/brakes and I prefer it that way. With the power assist it feels like I'm not even driving the damn thing, I just finished restoring it but now that the newness has faded away I've gone back to using my beat-up '63 Dodge 880 because it actually takes some muscle to drive.

So it's power brakes or death then? I totally don't agree with that. Have you ever actually driven a car with manual brakes before? The only difference is that they're a lot less touchy than power brakes. I can't get used to that whole "touch the brake pedal slightly and come to a complete stop" way of driving. I'd be much less likely to get in an accident without the power assist...

You sound like you only have ever owned and driven 2 cars.

Generally you goto a manual brake set up because you have a vehicle light enough to cope with it, and you want better pedal feel. You also tend to get a touchier pedal.
Its the power brake systems that tend to be soft and spongy.

I suggest you try driving your car more, and see if you get used to it.

All cars feel different and it would be impossible to make them all feel the same.

[KiwiBacon]

Originally Posted by oedipussy

Why? Because I'm used to manual steering/brakes and I prefer it that way. With the power assist it feels like I'm not even driving the damn thing, I just finished restoring it but now that the newness has faded away I've gone back to using my beat-up '63 Dodge 880 because it actually takes some muscle to drive.

So it's power brakes or death then? I totally don't agree with that. Have you ever actually driven a car with manual brakes before? The only difference is that they're a lot less touchy than power brakes. I can't get used to that whole "touch the brake pedal slightly and come to a complete stop" way of driving. I'd be much less likely to get in an accident without the power assist...

You're comparing a car which was designed around unassisted steering and brakes with a car that was designed around power assisted brakes and steering.

They are never going to be the same thing or feel in any way similar. If you kill the power assist on the car with assisted brakes then you will not have enough braking power.
Yes I have driven vehicles when the power steering and brakes were not functioning. It is not a pleasant experience and feels nothing like driving a vehicle which never had power assist.

[curtis73]

thats very true. Before I could recommend manual brakes to anyone, I would suggest they drive my drum/drum manual brakes on a 1973 AMC Hornet. Absolutely horrid. Despite replacing every single brake component, no matter what I did that car wouldn't stop. If there was snow on the ground, I could literally stand on the brake pedal with both feet (and I'm 6'1" 250 of mostly muscle) and when I'd put it in gear, one of the back wheels would just start spinning... just from putting it in gear.

Its just proof that every vehicle's brakes are only as good as the engineers make them. AMC never spent much on engineers.

What I'm saying is: Don't assume that your 58 Desoto will act like your other car just because they'll both have manual brakes and steering. You might find that a 58 Desoto's manual brakes are so inadequate by today's standards that you'll feel as if you've ruined your car's drivability.

[mr_mushroom]

i took out my p/s pump, and it is a bitch to steer.
the problem with manual gearboxes is that it takes 9 turns in either direction from the center to turn the wheel all the way.

seriously don't take 'em out unless you're ready to have a very hard time driving the car.