SCARY Saturn problem!

[UncleBob]

I agree that it could be a fuel flow issue, but even if it is a fuel flow issue, that doesn't nail it to a fuel pump.

I know my posts on these types of questions are rubber-stampish. Here's the reality.

We have a poster that is not very car savy. He could be missing very important info. We have very little data to work with. Any advice I offer, as a mechanic, will most likely be a costly experiment.

All that vs what it costs to get it diagnosed properly, using real data to pinpoint the problem. Its simply not cost-effective to recommend X, Y or Z, unless the person a) can get them for free or nearly free, and b) is confident, capable and has the tools to install them themself.

And then you get into the question of time vs money. IS the amount of trial and error that very possibly could be involved worth it? That will depend on the person in question of course.

Of course, there are unknowns with my suggestion. The particular mechanic that gets saddled with diagnosing it, might not be too good, and might recommend unnecessary stuff. Always a possibility. But I would personally have more faith in someone that does it for a living than questionable predictions from people on the net (including my predictions)

If you can give me codes, data stream, specific component output, I could tell you exactly what the problem is. Without those items, or just a small amount of those items, its somewhere between a somewhat educated guess, all the way out there to a wildly uneducated guess.

This isn't an attempt to dissuade people from attempting to fix their own vehicles, mind you. But if money and time are factors....I think its a losing game.

[UncleBob]

here's an example from work today:

Guy I know....comes in with a chevy luv with a SBC V8 in it. He just picked it up a few months ago. Has complained previously about it running poorly over 1/2 throttle. First time I glanced at it.....spent very little time at it, I told him the carb isn't jetted right. Thats his problem. He's convinced its something else, doesn't like my advice and leaves.

Fast forward to today. His truck dies on him 2 blocks up the street. So he walks in and asks me to take a look at it. He spent over an hour messing with it, trying to encourage it to run. He's conviced its an ignition problem.

Loaded with my knowledge of whats wrong with it, I spend the 10 minutes walking with him over to his truck. For humor's sake, I bring with me an ignition module. I ask for the keys, jump in it, hold the gas to the floor and crank it. It fires up after 10 seconds of cranking.

I had predicted he had flooded it, because of my previous look at it, I knew it was running way too rich. My prediction was correct. He finally agreed that we should take care of the carb problem.

This took very little time out of my day. It took a lot more out of his. It cost me nothing, he missed work today. (and god knows how much gas he's thrown away in this thing, with its horrible mileage)

Point being, he didn't know what he was doing and lost a lot because of it. Just one example, not relating it to this particular situation.

[turtlecrxsi]

Originally Posted by UncleBob

all they do is scan codes. It being a 95, I doubt its OBD2, so they probably won't scan it.

Sorry yeah I didn't think about that.

And you're right. After all, we're on the net and can't see his vehicle. I'm sure a mechanic who works on 10 year old 0BD1 cars could help him rather quickly. I just hate to see people who work hard for their money go to a place to have their vehicles fixed and get charged ridiculous amounts of money for something relatively basic. I vowed never to have this happen to me again so I started learning about my cars so I could be aware of any issues that might take place...

[Drez7]

Yea man, they tried to charge me an insane price at the saturn dealership just to get my struts fixed. Now if money wasn't a problem, this whole issue would be quite simple, but obviously you probably can tell that it is, because I'm driving a '95 saturn.

So yea, they couldn't diagnose it at autozone...but just to give you guys more clarification about my problem-

The car starts fine generally. The rpm starts a bit higher when I first start the car, maybe at about 1.2k rpms, and usually lowers a slight bit to about 1k rpms on the dot. sometimes a tad bit lower even, to .9k rpms. I think this is generally because of the weather.

Now when my car gets messed up is when it'll start shaking really badly just like how it does if your letting off the cluth in first gear without applying any gas. It'll do this and die...the rpms will be going crazy right before and during it happening...that is, they'll go really low when the car isn't in gear or being driven.

When it happened to the point where my car wouldn't stop shaking each time I started it up, I can barely drive it for each time I switch gears the rpms drop real low like it's about to die. Right after it started working fine again that day, the rpms would go really high up to like 2k each time I put it in neutral and stayed there until I came to a complete stop, which it would then begin lowering. That isn't typical though.

Usually however, when I'm driving my car and I'm just coasting it on the road or coasting down a hill in neutral, right when I take it out of gear and put it in neutral the rpms will actually go up a bit for a few seconds, around 2k, then lower. The day my car got really messed up though is when it had stayed at or over 2k until I either put it back into gear, which it would then lower immediately and start to go up again when I accelerated, or until I came to a complete stop which it would then gradually lower.

Maybe this can offer you guys some insight...? Also, another question I have, is if the problem is something with the fuel flow (which it definitely seems likely to be), would this impact my gas mileage? Maybe I've been driving more but it seemed like my mileage got a bit worse....not a huge amount though, and it could just be me or the cold weather.

[79volaresw-owner]

so while your at it anything need replacing? i noticed my 93 sc2 was idling at 2000 under 20 we had a problem with the idle air control solenoid on a blazer it was stuck and the idle was atleast at 3000 rpms with no power i could imagine theres reverse/intermittent affects i strongly recomend a chiltons or haynes manuel they are pretty good my car has a code check key and all the codes in the book the saturns are very good at not letting you know theres a missfire all i heard was a scraping sound in mine grab yourself a pair of spark plug wires i went to duralast they have lifetime warranty at autozone i had a pair that leaked spark but i think it was manufactures defect (keep your box) i went to bosch platinum 4s they have had no problems i DO NOT RECOMEND singles ive had misfires in other vehicles because of them once basic maintainance is done get and problem not fixed go get your fuel pressure tested and a injector flow test

[534BC]

I'm starting to see symptoms pointing to an intermittent (fairly large) air leak. Look into the throttle plate/plates, loose components, ect.

[Drez7]

Okay, I got it looked at/fixed...I forgot what the part was...I think it started with a T. But the mechanic said it was really dirty and the cause of this was bad/cheap fuel...and recommended I start using premium even though manufacturer recommended regular....so I don't know. Does that even make sense? He also recommended I get the pc valve or something like that changed/cleaned or something every year or two.

Does this sound like it was my problem? And again, would this effect my car's fuel economy?

[UncleBob]

look at the receipt, should say what part they replaced.

[534BC]

Hmm, Tire?

[79volaresw-owner]

in some ways i can imagine cheap fuel can do that look into maintance and keep those parts clean usually its blowby oil and egr carbon that get things sticky and nasty i saw a throttle body at the junk yard the whole thing was black and had thick layers of carbon on it i only use premium gas since i got my car i chemtooled the throttle body and ever since its been clean as a whistle

[INF3RN0666]

Originally Posted by UncleBob

I agree that it could be a fuel flow issue, but even if it is a fuel flow issue, that doesn't nail it to a fuel pump.

I know my posts on these types of questions are rubber-stampish. Here's the reality.

We have a poster that is not very car savy. He could be missing very important info. We have very little data to work with. Any advice I offer, as a mechanic, will most likely be a costly experiment.

It sounds like you're talk about me. I dunno if you're directing that towards me or not. but I'd just like to make a comment.

Anything I recommend is exactly just that: a recommendation. You can listen and believe what I say, or you can completely ignore it. What I recommend is to keep an open mind to the ideas put forward. There's no way to diagnose a vehicle over the internet from symptoms described with words. I try to reason my recommendations and give symptoms that I've experienced when I had a similar problem to make things more clear and help rule out issues. I always tell people to check out their local mechanic and raise the question of the suggested issues they saw on this forum. What's the point of posting "we can't help you", if you won't offer a POSSIBLE cause. I couldn't care less if you were completely off because this is a forum and I don't even know you.

PCV's do help a tiny bit with fuel economy. I DONT recommend running premium in a car that old and that runs on regular. It has NO EFFECT as long as you're not getting detonation at the current octane levels in regular. Try it out yourself. I think you'll realize you're wasting money on premium, because they're just for Dodge Vipers, and Ferrari Enzos and the like.

[UncleBob]

you completely misread my post. It was not directed at anyone that offers advice. I was explaining why I'm leary to offer advice based off of very minimal data, and why no one can offer good advice.

I can offer all sorts of procedures to help diagnose the problem, but if the procedures can't be followed, either due to a lack of tools or understanding, doesn't really matter. Without proper diagnosis, its a guess. Guesses are expensive.

Thats it.

[Drez7]

Whatever guys stop arguing. I wouldn't have come on here if I didn't want help, and you all helped a lot because at least I could narrow the problem down to a fuel flow issue. Yeah, I think the throttle body or whatever was really dirty. Anyways, so far the car is running good, still not sure if I should use fuel more expensive than regular the next time I gas up...I thought it wouldn't make sense either, but that's what the mechanic recommended? Well whatever...thanks a lot everyone who offered advice. It saved me money!

[KiwiBacon]

Originally Posted by Drez7

still not sure if I should use fuel more expensive than regular the next time I gas up...

You don't need to buy high octane fuel (premium), you just need to make sure you buy fuel from reputable stations.

[confucious]

even if the light went off the computer should store the codes until the computer is reset