Speakers came today

[ngsm13]

Originally Posted by OffRoadSonoma

I think it should be deleted. Some stuff was helpful but it was more arguing and flaming than anything. So delete it away.

The is no argument. The only thing that exists is a thick skulled individual.

What I have stated is facts, plain and simple. Not one word has been opinion. All are pure factual statements.

That is all.

NG

[CBFryman]

I dont know where Jet Lee heard that tuning into the infrasonic range was good for car audio but it isnt. it will give you huge audible spikes in the 20-30Hz range instead of in the 30-50Hz range. WIth ANY enclosure yo uare going to have audio spikes in ANY environment save anecho. you are going to have standign waves and wave build up in certianareas acording to that vehicles particular acoustical properties.

If you want as flat as possible it is alwasy best to use sealed in car. Im not going to lie. You can get a pretty flat respince by tuning in the mid to high 20's in most cases (varies from driver to driver) and still have the advantage of the extra SPL ported has over sealed.

Tuning into the range Jet is talking about is used in home theatre only so the driver can safely extened into the infrasonic range where cannons, guns, thuds, crashes, explosions, etc... exist in todays modernt and more advanced recording techniques in movies.

Songs like Andon posted are there simply to makes the drivers move far. and by the way i am "banging" because i can pick up the lows in that next line....lmao

IF you want a pretty flat responce and lots of SPL and you have decent wood working skills give the wicked one a try. Deckwaredesigns.com i think is the website. If you are hesitant i am probably going to put a pair of cheaper audiobahn 10's in one for my GF's car simple because she wants a lil bass in the trunk. Ill let you know how it sounds.

[CBFryman]

Originally Posted by PaulD

dang, I didn't even see page 3 before I made my last post ....... maybe I should just delete this thread and we can start over. Becareful guys, if someone reports this thread one or more of you might be banned by the owners.

I dont think it should be deleted. Saveing the personal attacks there was a good discussion. If it is reported i dont see banning anyone as the best option. Reprimanding them via PM. But that is just my 0.02 and i have no power here.

as for your unloading comment. 17Hz and my Ava18 just starts to unload, i can still go full bass knob and my amp is still sucking the power form my chargin system. now with the new, larger enclosure im building with a bit more port area unloading may be an issue that low.

[ngsm13]

Don't forget about cabin gain ...

Also...

Originally Posted by ngsm13

The is no argument. The only thing that exists is a thick skulled individual.

What I have stated is facts, plain and simple. Not one word has been opinion. All are pure factual statements.

That is all.

NG

That is all.

NG

[Mannyb18b]

HAHA ngsm cracks me up, but I def. have to say he is one of the most intellegent audiophile I have seen on these forums. Everything he says is most likey true, can't wait to meet alot of these guys from the forums at a bass meet.

[Jet-Lee]

Originally Posted by CBFryman

it will give you huge audible spikes in the 20-30Hz range instead of in the 30-50Hz range. WIth ANY enclosure yo uare going to have audio spikes in ANY environment save anecho. you are going to have standign waves and wave build up in certianareas acording to that vehicles particular acoustical properties.

EXACTLY!!!

How well can you hear those 25hz thumps in your truck, because the spike is at 40hz? THAT'S MY POINT! Put the frequency spike LOW to get the spike LOW. Above the spike, everything is smooth plus/minus 1db (when designed correctly). Yes, it's used in home theatre, but that's the other point. Why not utilize the home theatre ideas for our own use in our vehicles???

NGSM, quit quoting yourself, it makes you look lazy and dumb.

Paul, don't delete the thread, just delete the bickering and flaming.

www.decware.com

CB, I'm interested to hear what your Wicked One will sound like. I've had good results pointing the mouth into the cabin, but some say facing it backwards and loading it off the trunk lid/back gives good low end extension. Let me know how it does.

[Heron_]

Originally Posted by Jet-Lee

Why not utilize the home theatre ideas for our own use in our vehicles???

For multiple reasons.

First and foremost being that movies and music have completely different subbass bandwidths. Movies may have rumbling down in the 15hz region. But there are VERY few genres of music that contain information down this low. So what you say? Well, by tuning that low....you are effectively making absolutely zero use of the port. It's doing nothing. Absolutely nothing.

Secondly, vehicles have much higher transfer function than a room does. Typically around 12db/oct beginning at around 60-80hz (depending on vehicle, sub placement, etc). Do you know what affect this is going to have, and why it creates another point of difference between car audio and home audio/theater setups?


The fundamental thing to understand here is that home theater and car audio are COMPLETELY DIFFERENT, and that certain applications and setup ideas can NOT be transfered freely between the two. They are two completely different realms, two completely different enviornments.....Only the ignorant would attempt to intermingle the two.

[Jet-Lee]

Originally Posted by Heron_

Only the ignorant would attempt to intermingle the two.

Whoa..... tell this to every person attempting to get correct imaging and sound quality in their cars.

All principles are the same, you're simply working with a smaller listening room, with poor acoustics.

[Heron_]

Originally Posted by Jet-Lee

Whoa..... tell this to every person attempting to get correct imaging and sound quality in their cars.

All principles are the same, you're simply working with a smaller listening room, with poor acoustics.

The goal is the same, the techniques used to achieve such are NOT. That is what I was conveying to you. Obviously this flew directly over your head.

Again, only the ignorant would attemp to intermingle the two and apply home theater setup techniques to car audio.

[ngsm13]

Originally Posted by Heron_

The goal is the same, the techniques used to achieve such are NOT. That is what I was conveying to you. Obviously this flew directly over your head.

Again, only the ignorant would attemp to intermingle the two and apply home theater setup techniques to car audio.

Numbskulls will always be numbskulls. Always.

NG

[Heron_]

Originally Posted by ngsm13

Numbskulls will always be numbskulls. Always.

NG

New sig.

j00 likey ?



Oh, by the way Jet...you failed to comment on my last post as to why porting so low does not function the same in a car with music as it does in home theater. You seemed to skip right over the technical issues I presented (which, by the way, isn't even all of them. But I didn't want to overwhelm you right away )

I can't imagine why........

[Jet-Lee]

Originally Posted by Heron_

Oh, by the way Jet...you failed to comment on my last post as to why porting so low does not function the same in a car with music as it does in home theater. You seemed to skip right over the technical issues I presented (which, by the way, isn't even all of them. But I didn't want to overwhelm you right away )

I can't imagine why........

Too bad it DOES function the same way. A port is a port is a port, they all function the same(given it's a port and not a horn/tl/aper.). YOU don't notice the tuning frequency because the longer wavelengths don't have the room to expand and develop before reflecting and cancelling themselves out. A large room allows the lower tones to extend, sometimes the full wavelength, before reaching another surface to reflect.

Please explain how the techniques are different. (Notice I don't hide my inquiries amongst paragraphs of flaming.)

[Heron_]

Originally Posted by Jet-Lee

Too bad it DOES function the same way. A port is a port is a port, they all function the same(given it's a port and not a horn/tl/aper.). YOU don't notice the tuning frequency because the longer wavelengths don't have the room to expand and develop before reflecting and cancelling themselves out. A large room allows the lower tones to extend, sometimes the full wavelength, before reaching another surface to reflect.

You obviously fail to realize how a port functions. The further you move above the tuning frequency, the less effect the port has. About one octave above the tuning frequency the port is totally ineffective and the subwoofer basically performs as if it were simply in a sealed enclosure. For your suggestion of 15hz, this would mean that beginning at approximately 30hz and higher the port is doing absolutely nothing and the subwoofer is simply performing the same as the subwoofer in a sealed enclosure would. Given the fact that in 99% of music, 99% of the frequency content is from 30hz and up......building a ported enclosure tuned to 15hz is completely and utterly worthless. The port is doing nothing. The system is performing essentially the same a sealed system. And for those few times the musical content is below 30hz, the frequencies are still high enough above tuning that the port is contributing very, very little. If you are going to tune to 15hz, you might as well just go sealed and save yourself the time and effort. Because with music, the port is going to be doing virtually NOTHING.

Please explain how the techniques are different. (Notice I don't hide my inquiries amongst paragraphs of flaming.)

Completely different system requirements. Completely different source material. Completely different enviornments.

For one, a room does not benefit from transfer function nearly as much as in an automotive enviornment. While homes do add some reinforcement to the low end, it's not nearly as much as is seen in a vehicle. Which means that they, in a room, need the added benefits of a low tuning to induce an increase in output in the bottom-most octaves and produce those frequencies at the output level desired. This is not a need in a vehicle, where the transfer function is contributing ~12db/oct in low frequency output. With a sealed enclosure, it is not very hard to obtain a flat frequency response down to 10hz in vehicle. This is nearly impossible to obtain in a home without either massive bass boost in the low end (which would likely induce clipping) or porting tuned to a low frequency to increase the output of the system at those low frequencies.

Also, in home theater, the audio system is reproducing sound effects of a motion picture, which can and normally do drop down to or below 20hz. These systems, obviously then, need good output levels at very low frequencies, and they are relying on the enclosure to produce those output levels since the room's acoustics are contributing very little to the output. However, those very low frequencies are simply hardly ever seen with pure musical content. Orchestra's and classical-type music are one of the very few genre's that have content below 25hz. Heck, most music does not go much below 30hz. And because of this, porting an enclosure that low (15hz, as you suggested) simply is not necessary as it will contribute nothing to the system over the typical range of frequencies being played. That and, as I mentioned, vehicles simply do not need the low-end reinforcement that is required in a home system.

Again, you simply can not attempt to impliment the same techniques used in home theater to car audio. Completely different source material. Completely different enviornments, and completely different system requirements means totally different techniques need to be implimented for desired results.

[ngsm13]

Originally Posted by ngsm13

Numbskulls will always be numbskulls. Always.

NG

That is all.

NG

[Heron_]

Originally Posted by ngsm13

That is all.

NG

With any luck he will comprehend my last post and actually understand how and why his logic is fundamentally flawed.