Can anyone identify these wheels?

[Christ]

I believe that 690kg is the structural weight of the wheel... i.e. what it can handle for vehicle weight on that corner. All wheels sold in the US are weight rated, it's a US-DOT requirement.

[CapriRacer]

Originally Posted by Dr0pZ0n3

Have you ever noticed that there is usually a marking (dot) on new tires?

Put that marking near the valve stem, and spin the tire
Mark where the weight should go
Break the tire back down, flip it so that the OEM mark is 180 from the valve stem, spin it again
Mark the new spot for the weight
Your "sweet spot" is somewhere between those two markings.
If you break the tire down, turn it so the valve stem is between those two markings, you'll (eventually) find a "zero" balance.

Yes, it's alot of work, but I REALLY don't like weights... so I go to sears to get my tires mounted, and they let me do it... (I used to work there)

I can actually get the info from them, that has pics and shit of what to do, the next time I buy tires... they'll give me the book that explains how to deal with mismatched tires and tires with more than one OEM dot and shit like that...

Yes, it's a lost art... b/c it's a slow process.

You are aware that the OEM dot is the high point of the uniformity, right? (think: out of round) It is common that OEM rims are marked with the uniformity low point by drilling the valve hole there. So the idea behind matching these 2 things is to produce the most "round" assembly given that these 2 points are lined up.

BUT

Not all tires are marked with this dot - plus not all the dots on tires are uniformity marks. Not to mention that there are a few OEM rims that aren't marked that way (some aren't even measured!) and pretty much all aftermarket rims aren't measured this way either.

And last but not least: Uniformity is not related to balance. Put another way: You can match mount the tires and get a "zero" uniformity, but it will still require balance weights. Doing it the way you've suggested merely minimizes the amount of balance weight required, but doesn't do anything for the "out of round".

[Christ]

as opposed to just tossing the tire on there and adding whatever weights the machine calls for...

yes, I'll do what you suggest, cause it's not like I've done this since I was 14 or anything.

I'm well aware of what those dots represent.. I've been to several conferences and "sermons" if you will, talking about the best ways to work with tires and the phenomena associated with vacuum and injection molding.

We all know that no object is truly round, and I also know that if there is an out-of-round condition between your wheel and tire, there is no way to fix it that is realistically available, other than continuously rotating the tire around the rim to try to match it up.

You can add all the weights in the world to your tire/wheel assembly, but the fact is, when you balance a wheel/tire, you're not balancing the wheel at all... you're balancing the tire.

Adding to this: according to federal DOT specs, ALL (yes, ALL) rims must be measured for conformity to standards... this includes "out of round" specs. if it's not within a given specification, it's not road worthy, and can't be sold.

Same thing for tires.

What you're missing is that you're initially using those markings on the tire to balance it. The uniform high spot in the tire is always opposite the place that needs weight in the tire, as it's also the place that weighs the most. (more material/density of material in a given area.)

What you're doing when you zero balance a tire on a wheel assembly is matching the weight differential AND the sizing/uniformity differential between the two.

Resultant fact is that you end up with a tire that's completely balanced, needs no weights, and is as close to "round" as the assembly will allow.

Zero balancing, I might add, is also the most commonly used method in high-speed applications... when's the last time you ever saw wheels weights on a professional race car? (Think: Formula 1, NASCAR, NHRA/IHRA, KART, etc.) They ALL use this method, and it works for them.

Any Sears in this country has the capability to do it, but they don't train their personnel, as it would cost more. Like I said, it's not the easiest, or cost effective method, but it's what I do.

If you wanted to balance the wheel, you'd have to spin it w/o the tire on it, on a machine that would accept that small of a load ( most tire balancing machines won't) such as a pulley balancer, and add/remove weight as necessary.

[CapriRacer]

There are a number of misconceptions we need to address, so I'm going to break up this posting into segments, so I can address each issue separately:

Originally Posted by Dr0pZ0n3

...........

I'm well aware of what those dots represent.. I've been to several conferences and "sermons" if you will, talking about the best ways to work with tires and the phenomena associated with vacuum and injection molding.

............

Tires are not injection molded, nor vacuum molded. They are molded by applying pressure using a bladder inside the tire and pressing the tire into a mold cavity. The tire is removed by releasing the pressure in the bladder, and the tire is removed from from the bladder assembly. Sometimes the mold itself expands (called segmented molds) and the tire is more easily removed.

Originally Posted by Dr0pZ0n3

.........

We all know that no object is truly round, and I also know that if there is an out-of-round condition between your wheel and tire, there is no way to fix it that is realistically available, other than continuously rotating the tire around the rim to try to match it up.

.............

Which is why they mark both the tire and the rim. If these aren't marked - and many tires and rims aren't - then unless you have a "Road Force" machine like a Hunter GSP9700, you will not be able to do this easily.

Originally Posted by Dr0pZ0n3

..............

You can add all the weights in the world to your tire/wheel assembly, but the fact is, when you balance a wheel/tire, you're not balancing the wheel at all... you're balancing the tire.

........

This may seem like a trivial point, but you can balance the rim by itself, but when you put a tire on the rim, you are balancing them both - as an assembly. You can not balance a tire by itself unless you either measure it by itself or have "Zero" rim - which means both run out and balance are "Zero".

Originally Posted by Dr0pZ0n3

............

Adding to this: according to federal DOT specs, ALL (yes, ALL) rims must be measured for conformity to standards... this includes "out of round" specs. if it's not within a given specification, it's not road worthy, and can't be sold.

...........

Federal Standards are for marking and durability. They do not contain specifications for run out and balance.

Originally Posted by Dr0pZ0n3

..........

Same thing for tires.

...........

The lastest Federal Standard for tires is FMVSS 139. It does contain standards for marking of tires and standards for durability and a couple of other regulations, but there are no Federal Standards for balance or runout.

Originally Posted by Dr0pZ0n3

................

What you're missing is that you're initially using those markings on the tire to balance it. The uniform high spot in the tire is always opposite the place that needs weight in the tire, as it's also the place that weighs the most. (more material/density of material in a given area.)

................

Sorry, uniformity and balance are separate issues. Read what Tire Rack has to say on the subject - and notice they don't mention balance at all!

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tirete....jsp?techid=17

Originally Posted by Dr0pZ0n3

............

when's the last time you ever saw wheels weights on a professional race car? (Think: Formula 1, NASCAR, NHRA/IHRA, KART, etc.) They ALL use this method, and it works for them.

.........

Sorry, but look at this photo and see if you don't see convention balance weights:

http://image.motortrend.com/f/featur...scar_tires.jpg

Originally Posted by Dr0pZ0n3

.........

Any Sears in this country has the capability to do it, but they don't train their personnel, as it would cost more.

.............

I'm suggesting that reason Sears doesn't do this is for another reason - the issue is more complex than you give it credit for. The matching of the tire to the wheel gives the best run out, then simply balancing the tire takes care of the weight distribution problem.

Originally Posted by Dr0pZ0n3

..........

Like I said, it's not the easiest, or cost effective method, but it's what I do.

If you wanted to balance the wheel, you'd have to spin it w/o the tire on it, on a machine that would accept that small of a load ( most tire balancing machines won't) such as a pulley balancer, and add/remove weight as necessary.

Sorry, but every balance machine will balance a rim by itself. You are getting confused with the "Road Force" machines, which in addition to performing a convention balance, will also measure the loaded run out of the tire, which is a separate operation.

Here's the web site for the Hunter GSP9700. Click on the "Introduction" tab. They give a pretty good description of the difference between balance and run out.

http://www.gsp9700.com/index.cfm

Hope this helps.

[dan89]

back on topic, fellas

[Christ]

werd.. not going to sit and argue with you.. I know what I was trained by Representatives from 7 tire companies over 3 years... I know what I have certification paperwork for... but if you insist on being right, I suppose you can be this time.

[dan89]

i saw another car with these wheels the other day at hardee's, still no luck searching for brand

[Christ]

Should have left a note on his car or something.

[dan89]

i thought about that, but I didn't do it

[Christ]

Check all the local tire shops that sell wheels... they almost look like something PepBoys might have... Proline alloy.. Check around, you might get lucky and find someone that remembers selling those type of wheels.

[CapriRacer]

Originally Posted by Dr0pZ0n3

werd.. not going to sit and argue with you.. I know what I was trained by Representatives from 7 tire companies over 3 years... I know what I have certification paperwork for... but if you insist on being right, I suppose you can be this time.

DropZone,

With all due respect to both you and Dan89:

If you would like to debate this further, start another post. That way we can sort out what you have wrong and what you have right. I'm not interested in being right, per se, but I am interested in correcting some of the misconceptions you seem to have.

BTW, I work for a major tire manufacturer and I train the trainers on this and other subjects.

[bigrims]

Cant help you with who makes the wheels but the references I found below along with some others that might help

JWL Certification - Japan Light Alloy Wheel (JWL) standard is a certification level instituted by the Minister of Land, Infrastructure and Transport which requires that alloy wheels being purchased in Japan, must have the JWL mark on them thus showing the alloy wheels to have passed through a rigorous self-certification process.

VIA Certification - Vehicle Inspection Association (VIA) is a third-party group in Japan which can test and verify whether or not any alloy wheels can meet up to the JWL certification tests.

Found on link here http://kulchawheels.com/alloy_wheel_...n/standard.php

[drdisque]

It's a very cheap no-name wheel that was commonly sold at places like Pep Boys.

[blackm20i]

ya im pretty sure i have seen that at pep boys man