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Old 01-26-2011, 10:56 PM   #16
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Re: shuddering regal, rough idle

Did you ever reseat your plug wires or get new wires? Did you ever check the coils? I didn't see from your responses that you did any of this yet.
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Old 01-27-2011, 07:35 AM   #17
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Re: shuddering regal, rough idle

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Did you ever reseat your plug wires or get new wires? Did you ever check the coils? I didn't see from your responses that you did any of this yet.
enslow, no I haven't reseated the plug wires, and no I haven't checked the coils yet. I've never installed plug wires before, and I'm a bit intimidated by the process. I tried to take a plug wire off a few years ago and the damn thing wouldn't come off. So I've stayed away from them since then.

How do the plug wires come off the plugs? Do you just pull and twist? Is there any special technique to use? Is it possible to break the plug wires when you're pulling them off? I guess I've never really understood how the plug wires attach to the plugs, especially since I've never removed them before.
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Old 01-27-2011, 08:47 AM   #18
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Re: shuddering regal, rough idle

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enslow, no I haven't reseated the plug wires, and no I haven't checked the coils yet. I've never installed plug wires before, and I'm a bit intimidated by the process. I tried to take a plug wire off a few years ago and the damn thing wouldn't come off. So I've stayed away from them since then.

How do the plug wires come off the plugs? Do you just pull and twist? Is there any special technique to use? Is it possible to break the plug wires when you're pulling them off? I guess I've never really understood how the plug wires attach to the plugs, especially since I've never removed them before.
I think it's time to do what you should have done first. Plugs and wires.. It's really not that bad. If you're worried about routing, take a couple of digital pictures.

If you don't already have one, get a Haynes manual, or if you are prepared to wait, get a factory service manual off ebay (even better). Plugs wires just pull straight off. If they've been on for awhile (a few years it seems!) the wire boots may be fused to the plugs so you'll just have to twist, rock, and pull harder. Wear a pair of leather gloves while you do this, especially for the plugs at the back, and your knuckles will thank you. On the rear plugs you may find little heat shields around each boot. This does make the the wires harder to remove, but they come off the same way, just pull.

In general, I'd do the following:
1) take pictures for wire routing.
2) use making tape to number the wires.
3) remove the wires from the plugs, one at a time.
4) remove corresponding plug using a socket for plugs. (there's usually one in a simple tool kit).
5) Gap the new plugs according to the gap specified in the manual. Install and tighten to the torque specified in the manual.
6) smear in a little dielectric grease inside the boots of the new wire.
7) install the wire along the same path as the old until you hear or feel a distinct "click" as the contacts make contact. Be sure to reinstall the heat shield around the rear rear boots.

If you've done O2 sensors, and the other sensors, you're capable of doing this yourself. I wouldn't even bother checking the coil yet, just change the plugs and wires and see how it goes. I'd bet it's just been plugs/wires all along.

BTW, everything you replaced already could have been tested before replacing. It's expensive to just throw parts at a car until something gets fixed. About the only things I'd change without testing are plugs, wires, filters, and oil.

Do this, good luck, and let us know!
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Old 01-27-2011, 08:50 AM   #19
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Re: shuddering regal, rough idle

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... Is it possible to break the plug wires when you're pulling them off?....

Who cares? You should put new ones in anyway! But, they're pretty hard to brake. If it does, it really did need replaceing in the first place!

To be safe, I'd get GM plugs and wires. They won't really break your bank. There are some good aftermarket wires and plugs, but there are some lousy ones too.
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Old 01-28-2011, 07:03 PM   #20
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Re: shuddering regal, rough idle

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Who cares? You should put new ones in anyway! But, they're pretty hard to brake. If it does, it really did need replaceing in the first place!

To be safe, I'd get GM plugs and wires. They won't really break your bank. There are some good aftermarket wires and plugs, but there are some lousy ones too.
Enslow- I'll definitely replace the plugs and wires. However, I just created another problem. I was looking for the fuel pressure regulator and the schrader valve, and I knocked off a line/tube running from some delco part to another part (which has two tubes connected to it, and then a third tube running to the fuel pressure regulator). I don't know what the other part is either. I'm attaching a picture of the delco part. I have no idea what this part is. I didn't hit the tube that hard to make it break, so maybe it's been about to break, or maybe this is what's been causing the problems with my engine. I looked at my manual and I couldn't figure out what this part is. I was thinking maybe it's the idle air control valve, or the camshaft position sensor, but after checking out those parts, I don't think that's what it is. Do you know what this part is? I clearly need to fix that line, but I don't know what it is.
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Old 01-29-2011, 09:07 AM   #21
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Re: shuddering regal, rough idle

Here's another picture, showing more of the engine. The part where the line/tube is broken is the part with the light blue and red three-wire connector running to it. It's above and to the right of the fuel pressure regulator. There are 2 tubes running from that part, and one of the tubes broke off. I'm trying to put the tube back in there and use electrical wire to keep it attached for now, but clearly I need to replace that tube. I just don't know what part it is, and so I can't order the right part for it. Any idea what that thing is? And the tube that is broken runs to black, plastic thing in the center of the picture. That central thing (not sure what it is) has two smaller tubes running to it, and then a third bigger tube running out of it going to the right (from the picture point of view). I wish my manual actually had pictures or described these parts. But it doesn't. It's a Haynes repair manual. I really need to get the factory service manual.
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Old 01-29-2011, 12:11 PM   #22
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Re: shuddering regal, rough idle

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Here's another picture, showing more of the engine. The part where the line/tube is broken is the part with the light blue and red three-wire connector running to it. It's above and to the right of the fuel pressure regulator. There are 2 tubes running from that part, and one of the tubes broke off. I'm trying to put the tube back in there and use electrical wire to keep it attached for now, but clearly I need to replace that tube. I just don't know what part it is, and so I can't order the right part for it. Any idea what that thing is? And the tube that is broken runs to black, plastic thing in the center of the picture. That central thing (not sure what it is) has two smaller tubes running to it, and then a third bigger tube running out of it going to the right (from the picture point of view). I wish my manual actually had pictures or described these parts. But it doesn't. It's a Haynes repair manual. I really need to get the factory service manual.
If I get a chance I'll look in my FSM, but I'm sure some one else can find it before me. I'll admit, I'm relatively new to the 3800 as I've owned one for 2 years after having a Grand Marquis for 12 years. I could almost identify every wire, tube, and box on that 4.6L motor. I guess after 10 years I'll get to the same point on the 3800!
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Old 01-29-2011, 02:42 PM   #23
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Re: shuddering regal, rough idle

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If I get a chance I'll look in my FSM, but I'm sure some one else can find it before me. I'll admit, I'm relatively new to the 3800 as I've owned one for 2 years after having a Grand Marquis for 12 years. I could almost identify every wire, tube, and box on that 4.6L motor. I guess after 10 years I'll get to the same point on the 3800!
I think it's the vacuum hose that creates the air pressure needed for the fuel pressure regulator to increase the fuel pressure when the gas pedal is pressed. Which might be the source of my problem. That vacuum hose came off way too easy - I barely bumped it. So maybe it was already loose.

I still don't know the precise name of this part. I'm still searching.
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Old 01-30-2011, 11:49 AM   #24
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Re: shuddering regal, rough idle

I'm still stumped with what that part is. But even if I had a replacement rubber hose, I wouldn't know how to detach the current broken hose, or how to put the new hose on. How do you remove that rubber hose/line, and how do you reattach it? Do you need a special tool? I like dealing with simple screws or bolts, but when it comes to these rubber hoses, I don't know how to remove or attach them. I mean, I guess I could just cut it off, but that seems like a bad idea, and that only solves the removal part of the repair.
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Old 01-30-2011, 02:55 PM   #25
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Re: shuddering regal, rough idle

Is your Regal supercharged?

This site may help you figure out what you broke:
http://www.autozone.com/autozone/rep...00c15280067e96

If yours is not supercharged (VIN K at the bottom of the page) then I suspect you broke the EVAP switch.
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Old 01-30-2011, 08:36 PM   #26
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Re: shuddering regal, rough idle

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Is your Regal supercharged?

This site may help you figure out what you broke:
http://www.autozone.com/autozone/rep...00c15280067e96

If yours is not supercharged (VIN K at the bottom of the page) then I suspect you broke the EVAP switch.
Enslow - thanks for the link. No, my regal isn't supercharged. Fig. 43 of the link you sent has the correct diagram. I broke the link from the EVAP canister to the "MANIF PRESS" which I'm guessing means Manifold Pressure. Thanks for posting that link. That helps clear up what the part is. Now I need to buy a replacement rubber tube, figure out how to detach the existing tube where it's still connected to the Manifold Pressure part, and then reattach the replacement tube at both ends. Or maybe I actually have to buy a new EVAP canister, maybe I can't replace the broken tube.

Those types of tubes without a visible connector or fastener have always stymied me whenever I've had to work on them. I just don't know the proper way to detach and then reattach those types of tubes. When there's a screw or a nut then it's a piece of cake, but these unorthodox type of fasteners are a pain in the a**.

So I don't even know if I can do this job myself, even though it should be a piece of cake. The EVAP canister is easy to get to, so it should be easy, but I have no clue how to remove the existing tubes other than cutting them off and destroying them in the process.
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Old 01-31-2011, 08:23 AM   #27
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Re: shuddering regal, rough idle

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I broke the link from the EVAP canister to the "MANIF PRESS" which I'm guessing means Manifold Pressure.
There is no link between manifold pressure and the EVAP canister. It goes manifold pressure -> EVAP Purge Valve -> EVAP vacuum switch -> EVAP canister. The part that's broken in the picture cannot be the canister. It is probably the purge valve.

In fact, looking at it more closely, the part thats broken looks like a soft rubber hose to connect a hard plastic vacuum line to a hard plastic nipple on the purge valve. Most of these vacuum lines will just pull off. What you need to do is find a length of vacuum tubing that is the same inside diameter as the plastic vacuum hose it broke off. Then see if you can just replace that part on the purge valve.

Careful with the vacuum routing. The diagram appears incorrect compared to your engine. It looks like the vacuum "T" from which all the vacuum lines come is on the alternator/accessory side of the engine. The diagram shows the vacuum "T" on the throttle body side of the engine.

Also, if that rubber vacuum hose broke that easily, check all other vacuum lines.
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Old 02-01-2011, 07:11 PM   #28
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Re: shuddering regal, rough idle

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There is no link between manifold pressure and the EVAP canister. It goes manifold pressure -> EVAP Purge Valve -> EVAP vacuum switch -> EVAP canister. The part that's broken in the picture cannot be the canister. It is probably the purge valve.

In fact, looking at it more closely, the part thats broken looks like a soft rubber hose to connect a hard plastic vacuum line to a hard plastic nipple on the purge valve. Most of these vacuum lines will just pull off. What you need to do is find a length of vacuum tubing that is the same inside diameter as the plastic vacuum hose it broke off. Then see if you can just replace that part on the purge valve.

Careful with the vacuum routing. The diagram appears incorrect compared to your engine. It looks like the vacuum "T" from which all the vacuum lines come is on the alternator/accessory side of the engine. The diagram shows the vacuum "T" on the throttle body side of the engine.

Also, if that rubber vacuum hose broke that easily, check all other vacuum lines.
Enslow - Yeah, you're right, it's the canister purge control valve (or it goes by a few other names). Also, it's got a rubber connector that attaches to the control valve, and then a hard plastic tube that fits inside the rubber connector. I need to find the right size rubber connector and plastic tube to replace those. I guess I should just be able to pull the rubber connector off at the broken end, and also should be able to pull off the other end of the tube that connects to the vacuum T. In my car, the vacuum T is on the throttle body side of the engine, it's confusing because the second picture I posted is rotated 90 degrees compared to the first picture I posted.
I'll probably make an attempt to pull the broken tube off in a few days, when the weather warms up. It's supposed to get to 17 degrees tonight in Austin, but it could be worse - like Chicago with 2 feet of snow in 24 hours.
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Old 02-02-2011, 08:13 AM   #29
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Re: shuddering regal, rough idle

Ah, a balmy 17 degrees. It's like -3 here. You can tough it out!

Oh wait, you're American.... 17 F We're like 30 F up here.
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Old 02-05-2011, 04:11 PM   #30
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Re: shuddering regal, rough idle

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Ah, a balmy 17 degrees. It's like -3 here. You can tough it out!

Oh wait, you're American.... 17 F We're like 30 F up here.
It's hard to believe it's warmer in Canada than it is in Texas. But actually, we're back up in the 50's today, so we're thawing out a bit.

I attached my fix to the disconnected tube. I don't know if the little rubber hose I used to connect the plastic tube to the canister purge control valve is good enough. Like maybe some of the gas is leaking out, because I didn't push the little rubber hose over the ridge on the plastic tube. The rubber hose wouldn't even fit onto the plastic tube at first, so I had to stretch it out to get it onto the plastic tube. I doubt it would fit over the ridge. And plus, that plastic tube is loose at the other end where it connects up to the vacuum "T", so I didn't want to put too much force on it by trying to really jam the little rubber hose on there. It seemed like the plastic tube could very easily break loose from the vacuum T if I wasn't careful.

After applying my fix, I started the car, it ran great for about 20 seconds, and then the engine was choppy again. I don't know why it sounds good for the first 20 seconds - the idle is smooth and even just as it should be. Then after about 20 seconds, it gets a little choppy, with it sounding like it's misfiring every few seconds.

Do you think it could be the little rubber hose I used to fix the broken connection? I was thinking of disconnecting the electrical connector that runs to the canister purge control valve, just to see if the engine still has a choppy idle with it disconnected. I know that's not a permanent solution, but I was thinking that would let me know if it really does have something to do with the canister purge control valve and the rubber tube to plastic tube connection.
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