2000 3.8-Neutral SftySw-Is this the shaft?

[serge_saati]

Yes it's this pan. With AXOD METRIC marking.
No don't loose the bolts. Just check all around the transmission. Maybe the leak is higher than the pan.

[WindstarMommy]

Oscaaaaarrrrrrrr and Maaarrrrrrrkkkkkk! (that's me calling you all)

serge_saarti said that something is definitely wrong.

Mark I was reading the "Transmission Failing" thread and you wrote:

Originally Posted by mark_gober

Being a newbie, you may want to invest in having it changed. You can do it yourself, but it's not nearly as easy as an oil change. The tranny pan has to come off to do it properly. If you have a buddy willing to show you, it's worth seeing, but I don't know if I'd attempt it blind. Not difficult, just very messy if you don't know what you're doing. If you'd like me to walk you through it, let me know.

If its low, its probably been overheated and could stand to be replaced. I hope that it fixes your problem. That'd be great.

I applaud your attempt to learn how cars work. I was lucky and my dad made me change the shocks on my moms car when I was about 9. He just handed them to me and said go change these. I had to find them and then figure out to change them. That sort of learning still serves me well today. Its never too late to learn how to work on your car and you'll be amazed at how much money you save doing it.

Mark, I think the same way your dad did/does (((applause for Mark's dad))) I am going to need you and Oscar and everyone else's help to explain to me how to check for what my tranny needs.

I await...

[serge_saati]

Ok, here's my advice:
-add MERCON V (not mercon I or other) trans fluid to the recommanded level in cold range when trans is cold. Which is ~0.5" below hot range. Don't add too much.
-Go to a trans shop and have it checked for the leak
-if the leak need to be scealed by adding trans seal, agree to have the sceal repaired
-they will add fluid again if it needs

You shouldn't seal the trans yourself. It's something very difficult.

Maybe the clutch band has overheated and new seal will not fix the problem. Maybe it'll fix the problem. So take a chance. Drive with O/D off to the shop.

[WindstarMommy]

Originally Posted by serge_saati

Ok, here's my advice:
-add MERCON V (not mercon I or other) trans fluid to the recommanded level in cold range when trans is cold. Which is ~0.5" below hot range. Don't add too much.
-Go to a trans shop and have it checked for the leak
-if the leak need to be scealed by adding trans seal, agree to have the sceal repaired
-they will add fluid again if it needs

You shouldn't seal the trans yourself. It's something very difficult.

Maybe the clutch band has overheated and new seal will not fix the problem. Maybe it'll fix the problem. So take a chance. Drive with O/D off to the shop.

So I can go ahead and add tran fluid right now and then take her to the tran shop to have the leak found? How much should I add?

serge_saarti, I just know that they are going to jack me around when I do go. What should I say to them so that I sound like I know what I am talking about?

[serge_saati]

Add 1/4 of 1qt bottle until it reaches 0.5" below the crossed hatch.
Just say that you have replaced the TRS and then after you've realized that you're loosing fluid and the leak needs to be fixed. And talk about the drivability issue.
Don't let them replace any parts.

[MARZBX157]

WindstarMommy,

You are correct about the pan in the photo. You will have to remove those small bolts round the pan; because there is no drain plug you will have to loosen them slowly and tilt the pan toward an angle so as to let the fluid out into a catch pan without making a mess. Once the pan is off, you will see the filter in place and you can remove then wipe the area down with clean rags including the inside of the pan. After the area is clean, replace with a new filter and replace the trans. pan.

You will add new Mercon V Transmission fluid (about 6 Qt.s) through the trans. dip stick tube so make sure you have a funnel that fits. Start the engine and continue to check the fluid levels, adding until within the specified area. After what Serge_Saati said about doing a Full Flush on trans. that hasn't had one for a long time, I would do just the "drop pan" method and see the results. Who knows, your problem could just be from low fluid as you stated which will cause slipping. If this does fix the problem then you can do the flush at a later date, like in the Spring or Summer months. Good Luck.
BTW, you should replace your transmission fluid every 30,000 miles.

[olopezm]

Hello WindstarMommy,

I'll do as much as I can to help, but to be honest I'm not an expert specially when talking about transmissions. That doesn't means I'll stop trying to help .

As suggested before a fluid change is a good idea, my pontiac had the same issue I came to a stop and the car would just rev up but wouldn't move an inch, somehow the car started to move and I drove straight home. The fluid level was fine, but hadn't been replaced in some time, I was at college and couldn't afford to spend time working on my car with all the homework and projects I had to do..., I drained the fluid and changed the filter and everything went back to normal, the filter was being blocked by dirt and that kept the fluid from flowing properly within the transmission.

Changing the fluid isn't that hard to be done, but expect to make A BIG MESS on your driveway as oil starts spilling out of the pan, it doesn't matters how hard you try,it always gets spilled (at least in my case LOL). What I did was:

1.-loosen all of the bolts around the pan enough so you have a gap between the bolt's heads and the pan.
2.- Remove the front bolts
3.- Pry the pan off from the transmission with a small screwdriver, be careful not to damage it.
4.- This is when the fluid should start spilling, if you did it as I suggested, the pan will be hanging towards the front of the van and it will be easier to catch the fluid spilling out.
5.- Wait until the fluid stops, then remove the remaining bolts and remove the pan. Clean the magnet and the pan with rags and make sure you get rid of any dirt or debris.
6.- OPTIONAL This would be a good time to install a drain plug, Autoparts stores sell kits for this task.
7.- NOTE the position of the filter and remove it (it is important to note the position since sometimes it can be misaligned and that can cause problems too).
8.- Lubricate the seal of the new filter with transmission fluid and install it in the transmission, make sure it's properly seated.
9.- Install the new transmission pan gasket on the pan, you can use some sealant to hold it in place.
10.- Install the pan on the transmission and tighten by hand all of the bolts.
11.- Tighten the bolts to specified torque (in case you have a torque wrench) to 106 INCH Lb (12Nm) in a "star-pattern" sequence; if you don't have one just tighten the bolts enough so you don't chew the gasket, this will cause leaks again.

In case the pan gasket has gone bad it can be the source of your leak, if that's your case your problem should be gone after this. The other source of leaks I know of is the seal between the torque converter (situated between the engine and the transmission) and the transmission itself. It happened once to me, but it was because the guy who rebuilt it made a poor job, that's why I don't think this can be your case...

Oh by the way, there are no dumb questions; the fact that you are willing to learn and fix your van puts way higher than average people , how can that be dumb? . Just as an example my neighbors call the technician to have a light bulb replaced...

Best regards,

Oscar.

PS. Just in case your transmission can also be known as AX4S

[mark_gober]

Windstar,

Good to hear that you're getting somewhere. Don't be terrified that your tranny is low. It does have some miles on it and frankly they all leak a little bit. Be concerned if it's leaking a quart a month or something like that. I'd simply add some fluid and see what you get.

As mentioned in an earlier post, make sure you get a funnel for the job. They sell specific funnels for filling transmission fluid. The dipstick comes out, the funnel goes in the dipstick tube and you add fluid. I suspect, given what you indicated, that you are around 1-2 quarts low. Add 3/4 qt and recheck. (Make you cycle through the gears again, just to suck up any fluid and fill any air bubbles that you may have.) Keep adding until it gets to the top of the hash marks. On older models of the Windstar (1995 for sure), they recommended that you kept the fluid all the way to the top of the hash marks. They fixed the design, but it sure won't hurt to have it full.

If that gets you going, I'd address a change out a little later in the spring. As far as changing the fluid, Olepz, gave a good rundown. I would only add a few notes. It's not terribly difficult, just a little messy. Here are my additions:

1. Loosen all the bolts slightly and then decide which direction you want the fluid to drain out. At that side, loosen and remove several bolts that are next to each other. As you move from that side of the pan toward the "hinge" side of the pan, loosen the bolts from more to less. You'll reach a point somewhere that the weight of the fluid will overcome the attachment of the gasket to the metal and the pan will start leaking and then pour. I'd like to tell you exactly how it happens, but it can leak just a bit and then gradually increase or it can go "pop" and start pouring quickly. Just have a drain pan ready (and if you are in your driveway, some cardboard under the drainpan to soak up what doesn't make it in the pan)

2. Use some car ramps or jackstands. You'll need to be under the vehicle for a little while and you simply cannot do this job without having some clearance. The more room, the better.

3. When you remove the pan, do make sure that you clean the magnet. It won't even look like a magnet because it has gunk all over it. It'll be sitting in the bottom of the pan in a circular impression. I used paper towels and wiped down the tranny pan to get it nice and clean.

4. When you pull the filter (which is approximately the size of a small book), It has a rubber Oring that must come out with it. If will often stay in the tranny and the filter comes out. When you go to stick the new one it, it won't fit because the oring is still in there. Just make sure it comes out. You can reach in with a finger and pop it out.

5. Pay attention BEFORE you pull the filter out how it is in there. It has a ring sort of device that it snaps onto tubes on the bottom of your tranny. Just look at where it clips onto those tubes so that when you reassemble, you'll put it in the same place. (pictures work good for this)

6. My tranny has a reusable gasket that is very good. I suspect yours does too. If it is black rubber and has two ridges on each face, its quite a bit better than any cork gasket they'll sell you. Just clean it up and reuse it.

Other than that, it's an easy job. I didn't install a drain plug in mine, but they do exist. I just can't speak to the ease of install. Frankly, I've always wondered why cars aren't made with tranny drain plugs and external filters, like the oil.

Good luck and I hope you get it running again. If you do, post another query about how to change your oil. You'll be surprised at how easy it is.

Mark

[WindstarMommy]

Hi, Mark and Oscar! Thanks, MARZBX157.

Thank you for the very detailed instructions on this

Oscar "PS. Just in case your transmission can also be known as AX4S[/quote] Yup, I found that out in another post somewhere while googling transmissions. I wish there was just ONE name for these darn things, LOL

When you said, "9.- Install the new transmission pan gasket on the pan, you can use some sealant to hold it in place." What type of sealant do I use?

Mark, when you said, "4. When you pull the filter (which is approximately the size of a small book), It has a rubber Oring that must come out with it. If will often stay in the tranny and the filter comes out. When you go to stick the new one it, it won't fit because the oring is still in there. Just make sure it comes out. You can reach in with a finger and pop it out." OK, should I replace the Oring while I have it out or keep the old one?

I will be parking her until next Tuesday when I can do the work. Until then, I will be doing extensive reading/learning. If I have questions I'll post them. If anyone else comes up with something please post it.

I know that sarge_saarti told me to take her to the shop (I still might do that) but I really want to try this myself first just to see if she gets fixed. If she leaks again/problems don't stop, THEN I will take her in to the shop.

Today I am going to order:
1. trans filter
2. trans fluid - I want to have 6 quarts on hand to be safe
3. trans funnel
4. trans O ring

Of course, I will be taking photos with each step so it is really going to take me a long time. Big Burgundy and I are scheduled to go drive to Michigan on the 19th...we'll see.

[olopezm]

Any type of RTV gasket sealant should work, it's optional so you don't have to be dealing with the gasket from moving out of it's position; if you install the bolts at each corner on the pan you can use them to hold the gasket in place and you don't need to use the sealant. If you do use sealant it will also help you to prevent any further leaks .

It is a good idea to do it yourself first if you have no inconvenience with it, the shop will do the same and will charge you the labor which, as far as I know, in this case is expensive. If you still have problem then take it to the shop.

Best regards,

Oscar.

[mark_gober]

Originally Posted by WindstarMommy

Hi, Mark and Oscar! Thanks, MARZBX157.

Thank you for the very detailed instructions on this

Oscar "PS. Just in case your transmission can also be known as AX4S

Yup, I found that out in another post somewhere while googling transmissions. I wish there was just ONE name for these darn things, LOL

When you said, "9.- Install the new transmission pan gasket on the pan, you can use some sealant to hold it in place." What type of sealant do I use?

Mark, when you said, "4. When you pull the filter (which is approximately the size of a small book), It has a rubber Oring that must come out with it. If will often stay in the tranny and the filter comes out. When you go to stick the new one it, it won't fit because the oring is still in there. Just make sure it comes out. You can reach in with a finger and pop it out." OK, should I replace the Oring while I have it out or keep the old one?

I will be parking her until next Tuesday when I can do the work. Until then, I will be doing extensive reading/learning. If I have questions I'll post them. If anyone else comes up with something please post it.

I know that sarge_saarti told me to take her to the shop (I still might do that) but I really want to try this myself first just to see if she gets fixed. If she leaks again/problems don't stop, THEN I will take her in to the shop.

Today I am going to order:
1. trans filter
2. trans fluid - I want to have 6 quarts on hand to be safe
3. trans funnel
4. trans O ring

Of course, I will be taking photos with each step so it is really going to take me a long time. Big Burgundy and I are scheduled to go drive to Michigan on the 19th...we'll see. [/quote]

Windstar,

1. They sell various types of gasket sealant. Some people call it RTV. Look on the back of the package and it'll tell you the applicable uses. There is an entire aisle in most auto parts stores for sealants. If you have a reusable gasket, the sealant is primarily there to just hold the gasket in place while you put the bolts in. I put a few spots every 4-6 inches just to keep it in place. As I mentioned though, I have an excellent quality reusable gasket. I believe it's factory and yours will probably have it too. It's black rubber and has to raised ridges that go all the around both faces of the gasket. A small screwdriver can be used to center the bolt hole on the gasket once you start putting the bolts on. This brings up another tip for success. Don't tighten any of the bolts until you have them all in place. Turn each bolt about 2 turns and then insert the next. When you are done, you're pan will be resting on the untightened bolts. Then you can go ahead and tighten them in. It'll be tedious, but tighten each about 1/3 tight and then go all the way around tightening them about 2/3 tight and then one more time all the way. There are specs on tightening them, but you probably don't have a torque wrench. Make them snug, but not break your arm tight. Too tight on gaskets creates gaps, bends the pan lip and defeats the purpose of the gasket.

2. On your Oring question. When you order the filter, it'll come with the oring. If you ever found yourself without the Oring, I guess it would be ok to reuse, but you should have to worry about it. Just use the ring that came with the new filter, lubricate with your finger dipped in tranny fluid and install. Remember to check out the way it's installed before you pull it out. It'll just make it easier to make it go right back in there.

Good luck.

Mark

[way2old]

It is highly likely the transmission pan gasket is rubber clad metal and is re-usable if cleaned. You will need no sealant of any kind if this is the case.

[mark_gober]

Windstar,

Good news. I changed the tranny fluid today in a 2004 Ford Taurus with the same tranny as yours. I took your lead and took pictures of the process. I'm beat down right now so I'm going to post the pics tomorrow, but I've included pics of several key steps and some of the stuff that I mentioned in my earlier posts.

Mark

P.S. It was just as messy as I remembered it.

[WindstarMommy]

Thanks for the info, way2old

Originally Posted by mark_gober

Windstar,

Good news. I changed the tranny fluid today in a 2004 Ford Taurus with the same tranny as yours. I took your lead and took pictures of the process.

Good for you, Mark! Awww...thanks for suggesting that I could lead in or at ANYTHING! LOL!

UPDATE: Saturday (yesterday) I went thru the gear things again like I did the other time but this time I checked it in Park and got the same results. So I added the 1/4 bottle of tran fluid while she was still running and it started spewing white smoke out of the tailpipe and the front park of the engine. At first I thought "well maybe I wasted some on the hot engine while I was taking the funnel out"...soooo...I purposely poured a little on the engine to see if it would smoke and no smoke. Was I supposed to add the fluid with the engine off?

I checked the dipstick and the level went up the stick to about 1/2" away from the crosshatch area.

Well I drove it anyway to see if the same problems were still there (after adding the fluid) and it got a little better. It doesn't lose speed as much (used to be from 60-65 down to 40 immediately) Now it just goes from 60-65 down to 55 but it goes back up again.

[serge_saati]

No you can add fluid whenever the engine is running or not.
I don't know why it smokes, it shouldn't be.

When you drive with overdrive off, the problem still happen?
I don't recommend you drive too much when it slips. It could permanently damage the clutch bands and the damaged part could move within the fluid and damage other trans parts.
But test it few times will not hurt.