Which new compact car would make the best pocket rocket?

[Da Kine Guy]

Seems like I am alone here in recommending the Celica. I own a 2001 and really enjoy it. I don't know if this got cleared up already, (I couldnt read the WHOLE thread) but the RSX Type-S and Celica GT-S are both 4 bangers with extremely similar technology under the hood. If you notice, both cars put out 100hp per liter: GT-S | 1.8 lt 180hp, RSX | 2.0 lt 200hp. I read a thread that said the GT-S technology is OK while the RSX is better, this is not true.

Both the RSX and GT-S have continuously variable valve phase timing, meaning the continuously change the starting times of the intake and exhaust valves. This improves torque (look at the Dyno's and you will see a fairly flat torque line each car when they are stock) and is the reason that these two cars have exceptional gas mileage for sport cars. The big thing that both engines have is what is called variable lift. Each car has two cam lobes for each valve, one low-mid speed cam and one high speed cam. At around 6000RPM the ECU sends a signal to the engine to engage the high speed cam, this results in increasing the valve duration and also allows the valves to open wider. This is where the cars differ from eachother. Each implements the high speed cam lobe in a different way, one with a hydraulic locking mechanism (Honda), the other with a pressurized pin (Toyota). Even though, the results are exactly the same. The effect is somewhat like a turbo kicking in because the HP jumps around +40hp or more in an instant, it is really quite impressive for an all-motor engine.

When compared side to side in a race it will be the better driver who will come out on top. The RSX has more horsepower, true, but it is also quite a bit heavier than a Celica. Mods for these cars are almost the same as well. Both have a turbo kit(s) in the works (some already installed on test vehicles) and super chargers are surely to be on the way. If you look at the popular mods out there today you can see that they both have Cool Air Intakes and enhanced exhaust systems. The Toyota has a little advantage in this arena because if you buy TRD enhancements your warrenty remains intack, which is a plus to those concerned about such things.

The best way to make your decision is to do as much research as possible and takes lots and lots of test drives, at different dealers if you have to. With either choice though, don't go skimpy on the options, you will kick yourself in the future if you do. The resale on vehicles with most options is also much higher than base models.

Good luck on your purchase and I hope you find the right car for yourself!

BTW: If you have any questions feel free to email me at casey018@attbi.com I will try to help you best I can.

BBTW: For a great understanding of variable valve timing technologies go to http://www.fortunecity.com/silversto...gine/vvt_1.htm

[moe182]

I almost bought a GT-S but then i looked at the RSX-S and said what am i an idoit?! The RSX is cheaper AND has more ponies, AND more features.....no contest. And on top of that im drivin' an Acura as opposed to a Toyota. Sounds stupid, yes i know, but every lil' bit helps with the ladies. Plus in my opinion the toyotas interior is pretty ugly.

[Da Kine Guy]

I got my 2001 GT-S with every option minus the gold emblems and carbon fiber dash for $17,900. I personally have no problems buying used cars, especially when they are only one year old. I don't think you're an "idiot" to consider buying a Celica, they are much nicer looking cars in my opinion. As for the RSX having more ponies, yes it does, but it is also a bit heavier. Find two equally good drivers and sit one in an RSX and the other is a GT-S, they will post times very close to eachother, with no one car always being faster then the other on every race. Their engines are extremely similar to one another. You have a point on the interior though. It's not that I think the Celica interior is poor (in fact I really enjoy it, nice wrap-a-round feel to it), its just that the RSX looks more like a luxery automobile inside. One thing I will say, however, is that I feel the body style on the Celica is much more appealing then the look of the RSX. The RSX looks kinda Civic-ey with some different headlights, this I find waters down its sporty performance stigma.

Please don't take this as a RSX bashing, as you read (hopefully) I hold the RSX in high regard, almost to the same level as the Celica. I am just letting you know what made me choose the way I did in hopes that it will help you make a better decision.

One car I will semi-bash is the WRX though. I don't care how fast it is, it really is an ugly automobile, both inside and out.

[moe182]

I wasnt bashing your car at all, and i wasnt calling you an idoit by any means....thast what i was thinking. ANd i didnt know that you bought your car used....but if you compare the two cars new you will find that the RSX-S is cheaper then the GT-S about $2 or $3K CDN....and i agree with you on the WRX.....

[Da Kine Guy]

No problem man, I didn't take any offense. I was just addressing some of the points you brought up.

[crayzayjay]

tuning potential of WRX is almost infinite. plus awd is a bonus

cheers
jay

[Sanchi]

i would pick the WRX on ur list but since i cant afford it the SE-R Spec-V is my pick, Both 4 door and can burn all the other cars on the track anytime anyday!!!!! :silly2: :silly2: :silly2: :silly2:

[Euro19]

I see some of you are really butt-heads, you ONLY consider performance, what´s the diference between 0.5 or 2 seconds from 0 to 60 mph, damn are you really thinking you´re gonna hit the top speed any day? What about looks, confort, etc? You can barely hit 90mph in the fastest USA highways and you would have to be prepared and responsable to easily hit 170kph in Europe like we do!

[NismoDrifts]

hey euro, you shouldve stopped with the argument against .2 and .5 0-60 differences. You killed it bringing out the top speed argument. The US is a big place and there are lots of lil corners where people hit their top speeds. deserted roads, empty highways, hit up any major city on late on a friday night, youll see some peeps leavin a gas station and goin to a deserted road. Happens all the time.

See, comfort is an issue, so is style. So you shouldve stopped it before then

[gang$tarr]

Originally posted by Euro19
You can barely hit 90mph in the fastest USA highways and you would have to be prepared and responsable to easily hit 170kph in Europe like we do!

uh, wrong

In the USofA most people drive at around 80mph on average on the freeways, so 90 isn't VERY special and you don't BARELY hit it

you can easily hit 130mph on american freeways, if you want to (breaking the law ofcourse)

and also 170kph is only about 105mph, which you can do if you feel like it here

I usually drive with the flow of traffic which on average is around 140kph, this is on a normal everyday. So going over 90 isn't really a difficult task, i've done it by accident before

[RINNAGAID]

All of you punks bashing the ford focus are blatantly biased. How dare you give the Civic SI any credibility. Its one of the most blatant rip-offs in the history of the auto industry. Honda got scared because the Focus was biting into sales and copied it. Just look at the headlights. If the hondas are great. Why aren't they in the WRC? The focus won straight rallies last season against the WRX and The Evo. Honda can't make an engine with any torque. Or do you ricers know what torque is? Does Colin Mcrae not know anything about cars? He left Subaru for Ford. From now on I will stick to the experts and stay away from the biased 'Fast and Furious' punks.

[ImportFreak]

Yea but Burns won last year in the Subbie soo i dotn see what u want.. A lot of ppl keep changing teams.. Makinen is now on subbie and burns in on Puegeut.. so whatever.. Anyway i would either go for the WRX or the RSX type-S.. THe type S is gonna get a sick selection in the aftermarket world adn soo is the wrx... I mean turbotechnics.. or somethign have a TT on an RSX in SEMA.. GReddy coming out wit a turbo, HKS is, etc. And the SEMA even proves the market for the RSX is gonna be vast considering that like every company showed up wit a tricked out RSX... so RSX or WRX

[ImportFreak]

Oh yea and Makinnen is considered like the best rallier now or something.. And he is in a EVO for a long time and is now in a Subbie both JPN cars.. hmmmm...

[NismoDrifts]

Hey, i like the focus, i think its a hot looking car. Especially the SVT.....its just back in the day Ford sucked balls at making engines. Sure, theyre making tons of improvements, and the Focus rally car rules, but after watching Fords do nothing but break down all my life its kinda hard to trust em. I think that goes the same with a lot of people here too. As for the Civic SI, i agree so whole-heartedly you would not believe.

[RINNAGAID]

Import freak - You like import cars then fine. You chose them in the same people decide what football team they like. You are biased against the Focus. It is in the same league with all those other cars and I can back up what I say. Writers for car magazines will tell you the same thing. Did you see Automobile magazine two months ago? They compared a lot of these cars and the focus did just as well or better. Do you know more than writers who review cars for their job? Obviously not, they can spell and you can't. Ford is competitive in many forms of racing in many countries around the world. So I don't buy that the SVT Focus should not be considered when looking at those cars. The truth is that it is in the same class. I can back it up. Just because you don't like Fords doesn't mean a lot to me. Would you try to tell me next that Hyundia or Kia is better because it is an import? How do you tell what is import anyway. The Focus is British designed and the ones built there differ only slightly from the North American ones. Believe what you want --
The truth is that the SVT Focus is just as good.