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Old 06-25-2003, 09:46 PM   #61
Tekone
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Quote:
Originally posted by Paonessa

you either 1)have a friend with an auto max vs your manual camaro, 2) have a friend who can't drive stick or 3) you're just lying out your asshole
VQmax---> <---you're v6 camaro
Yes, he had an auto. It wouldn't have mattered if my Camaro was auto or manual, they run very similar times. GM knows how to build autos. F-bodies are among the few cars out there the can run as fast with a auto as with a manual in the 1/4th. Stop light to stop light is a different story. I do not believe a manual Maxima would have won by much either. They had what, 190 hp and weighed about 3100lbs versus my 200 hp and 3300 lbs and slightly better gearing/aerodynamics. If a manual Maxima did win, it would not be by much.
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Comming soon: 3.73's, LSD, Air Lid, VS Cam
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Old 06-25-2003, 10:58 PM   #62
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nissan makes some of the crappiest autos. so an auto maxima is a very slow. even a 5 speed 4 cylinder base model accord can take it. the auto max's run's 16's. when a 5 speed maxima's are very quick cars. those are 14 second cars. so they run a high 14 when a auto camaro V8 can run a low 14. still its a bit off, but atleast its within a 5 car range which is still not too bad for a car that has 2 less cylinders and wasn't designed to be an all out drag monster.
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Old 06-25-2003, 11:14 PM   #63
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Tekone, And your OPINION wasn't baised?!? The mustang v6 (automatic or manual) will beat a camaro or firebird all day long! The camaro/firebird has a 5 horsepower advantage. WOW!!! 5 horsepower is nothing because it doesn't make up for the 200-250 pound weight disadvantage. I will admit that the mustang gt will get taken by the Z28, transam, or ss. But be fair, the mach 1 is a much better competitor with its 305hp/320tq engine. The mach1 is A LOT lighter than the ss or transam. It would probably be a driver's race. Speaking of the transam and the camaro ss, they would get KILLED by a car that costs ~$1000 more (the mustang cobra). The cobra will beat the corvette c5. The Z06 and the cobra is a toss-up and would probably be a driver's race! It's a little pathetic for chevy though. Ford is keeping up with them with a car that costs around $17000 less!! Plus Tekone, you say that chevy is more powerful than ford. I recall hearing something about a 500 HORSEPOWER FORD GT that will blow all of GM's cars out of the water.
P.S. It's just sad that ford can match GM's top Performers head on with one model (mustang)!
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Old 06-26-2003, 09:20 AM   #64
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Quote:
Originally posted by Tekone


Yup sure it is... What makes it FAR better than any V6 GM makes? The 3.8 V6 produced by GM has been out longer, is proven, and is reliable. What more can you ask for? Don't call GM V6's 'crappy' without having some facts to back up your statement.
How about reliability, performance, power, diversity, cost to manucture and upkeep, and gas mileage.........other than that.........
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Old 06-26-2003, 09:23 AM   #65
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Quote:
Originally posted by ttspool


well it is pretty much a drivers race between those two cars. also the camaro is heavier than the corvette. also there is a 15% loss of hp from flywheel to the wheels, so 303hp divided by .85 is roughly 356 hp at the flywheel
WHATTT???? So now you are saying that the SS should be dynoing around 370-380 horse?? If the stat you posted is correct..........you guys are getting as bad as the Ford guys and their claimed 440- horse '03 Cobra!!!!
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Old 06-26-2003, 09:27 AM   #66
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Quote:
Originally posted by Tekone
Ding ding ding....we have a winner. LS1 f-bodies DO run comarable time to an LS1 powered Corvette. This is taxing your brain I can see, so I'll put it in Layman's term for you. On average, LS1 f-bodies run low 13's at around 104-106 mph in the 1/4th. On average, LS1 Corvettes run high 12's at just slightly higher mph. Hmm...their times are pretty similar don't ya think for supposedly having a 50 hp difference. The reason the Corvette is faster than f-bodies is it has a slightly different cam (lower LSA to give it hight RPM power I believe) and it has better aerodynamics.


No, the f-bodies run mid to high-13's in the 1/4, if that.
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Old 06-26-2003, 11:50 AM   #67
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Here's a little video for you to soak up on Tekone..... and this isn't even a 2000+ Maxima. Its a 98, which is 190 horses stock....

http://mir.freewebspace.com/Movie/Te...MAXvsLS1SS.wmv

And this is against an LS1 with slicks, new rear end, headers, cams, exhausts, and intake manifolds.....
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Old 06-26-2003, 12:40 PM   #68
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Quote:
Originally posted by stangvette1
Tekone, And your OPINION wasn't baised?!? The mustang v6 (automatic or manual) will beat a camaro or firebird all day long! The camaro/firebird has a 5 horsepower advantage. WOW!!! 5 horsepower is nothing because it doesn't make up for the 200-250 pound weight disadvantage. I will admit that the mustang gt will get taken by the Z28, transam, or ss. But be fair, the mach 1 is a much better competitor with its 305hp/320tq engine. The mach1 is A LOT lighter than the ss or transam. It would probably be a driver's race. Speaking of the transam and the camaro ss, they would get KILLED by a car that costs ~$1000 more (the mustang cobra). The cobra will beat the corvette c5. The Z06 and the cobra is a toss-up and would probably be a driver's race! It's a little pathetic for chevy though. Ford is keeping up with them with a car that costs around $17000 less!! Plus Tekone, you say that chevy is more powerful than ford. I recall hearing something about a 500 HORSEPOWER FORD GT that will blow all of GM's cars out of the water.
P.S. It's just sad that ford can match GM's top Performers head on with one model (mustang)!
No, my opinion was not biased. I am just responding to your continual BS. As I said before, an auto Mustang will not take an auto Camaro. How do I know? I have raced SEVERAL. I have not lost once. I raced against my friend. We even switched cars and tried it. Same result. The Camaro won. Yes, Camaros weigh around ~150 lbs more, but they still come out ahead auto to auto. Want to know why? Ford does not know how to build a halfway decent auto. They are slow on upshifts and downshifts, so they take away quite a bit of performance from the Mustang.

Second, the Mach 1 is NOT much lighter than a LS1 f-body. A Mach 1 weighs around 3400-3500 lbs. A LS1 f-body weighs approximatly the same. Drivers equal, an auto Mach 1 will lose to a LS1 f-body. A manual Mach 1 will still lose, but it will be close. An 03' Mustang Cobra driven well will beat an LS1 f-body by about 4-5 tenths in the 1/4th drivers equal. However, ever tried to launch an IRS car? It is not easy to do, and it takes practice to get consistent good launches with IRS.

A 03' Cobra will take a C5 LS1 'Vette. I agree with that. It will NOT beat a Z06. That has been proven. It is close, but the Z06 will beat it. $17,000 less? Where do you get your figures from? A new 03' Cobra stickers at around $35k not including any dealer markup that dealers very often add. Like as in a $3k markup. A new 03' LS1 C5 sells for usually a little under $50k. There is not a $17k difference b/t the two.

It's funny how, whenever people get into a Mustang vs. Camaro discussion, Mustang owners are so quick to bring up the 03' Cobra. Do you know how few of them are out there? I like in a pretty wealthy city overall, and I have only seen 3 03' Cobras since they came out. This is amid at least 10-15 LS1 f-bodies I see every day. They are few and far between.

Since you still don't get it, lets do this one more time.
V6 Camaro to V6 Mustang= 200 hp vs. 193 hp. Advantage-Chevy
V8 f-body to Mustang GT= 310(350 actual) vs. 260 Advantage-Obvious
LS1 C5 to 03' Cobra=350 hp vs. 390(actual #'s slightly higher)
advantage- Ford
LS6 Corvette to 03' Cobra= 405 vs. 390 (actual #'s slightly higher)
Advantage- 03' Cobra has a little more power real world. But the Z06 weighs 600ish Lbs less. So, advantage-Chevrolet.
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Stereo: 2 RF HE2 DVC subs, 600w MA amp.
Performance Mods: Z28 Catback, Cutout
Appearance Mods: 35% side, 5% rear tint
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Comming soon: 3.73's, LSD, Air Lid, VS Cam
Not in that order....
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Old 06-26-2003, 12:43 PM   #69
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Quote:
Originally posted by Pick


How about reliability, performance, power, diversity, cost to manucture and upkeep, and gas mileage.........other than that.........
Funny how in this entire thread you have yet to post ONCE SINGLE fact. Still your continual biased BS. I have never had so much as one problem with my 3.8 in my Camaro. My dad has a 3.8 in his Buick. Never had a problem with it. Diversity? WTF did that come from? The 3.8 is put in so many GM cars it's ridiculous. It is also cheap to manufacture. And, I get 17 mpg on average city and around 26 highway thank you.
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2002 Navy Blue Metallic Camaro
M5, 3.23's
Stereo: 2 RF HE2 DVC subs, 600w MA amp.
Performance Mods: Z28 Catback, Cutout
Appearance Mods: 35% side, 5% rear tint
Charcoal leather seats
Comming soon: 3.73's, LSD, Air Lid, VS Cam
Not in that order....
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Old 06-26-2003, 12:46 PM   #70
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Quote:
Originally posted by Pick


WHATTT???? So now you are saying that the SS should be dynoing around 370-380 horse?? If the stat you posted is correct..........you guys are getting as bad as the Ford guys and their claimed 440- horse '03 Cobra!!!!
No, slow minded one. Do you even read a single one of my posts? READ HERE (taken from a previous post):
There is very little to no difference in hp. numbers between Z28's, SS's, formulas, T/A's and WS6 T/A's. They ALL put down close to the same numbers on the dyno. 300-310 for most of them. Does not matter whether it's a Z28, SS, WS6, exc. They all dyno around that range. You ever taken a look under the hood of a Ws6 T/A to see where all the air comming from the 'ram air' hood is going to? Nowhere, just like the regular T/A. The airbox that leads to the MAF is shut tight. So just how, again, does a Ws6 make 10-20 more advertised power with just a fake 'ram air' hood? It doesn't. Same goes for the SS. The exhaust system is just slightly less restrictive, but it provides little in the way of gains. A few hp really. Maybe you should read up on f-bodies.

And as for the 03' Cobras, guess what? They are underrated as well. Just not as much. They are underrated by around ~25 hp or so; it varies car to car, just like f-bodies.

Like I said, do some research first before spouting off more BS. You have made one too many posts in this thread.
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2002 Navy Blue Metallic Camaro
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Stereo: 2 RF HE2 DVC subs, 600w MA amp.
Performance Mods: Z28 Catback, Cutout
Appearance Mods: 35% side, 5% rear tint
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Comming soon: 3.73's, LSD, Air Lid, VS Cam
Not in that order....
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Old 06-26-2003, 12:51 PM   #71
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Quote:
Originally posted by Tekone


Funny how in this entire thread you have yet to post ONCE SINGLE fact. Still your continual biased BS. I have never had so much as one problem with my 3.8 in my Camaro. My dad has a 3.8 in his Buick. Never had a problem with it. Diversity? WTF did that come from? The 3.8 is put in so many GM cars it's ridiculous. It is also cheap to manufacture. And, I get 17 mpg on average city and around 26 highway thank you.
My family has owned 4 3.8 liter engines from GM and 3 VQ series engines. I think I know what the hell I'm talking about.... My brother no longer owns his GM 3.8, because it cost him more to keep up with the engine than the car was worth. My Grandfather drives neither one of his two now because both of them broke down right at 120,000 miles. My other brother's Pontias Parisienne 305 lasted longer than that!! Diversity, as in the VQ is now available in 9 cars released from Nissan just THIS YEAR on 4 different platforms. The 3.8 is cheaper to manufacture, but is not a good enough engine to have the combination of cheap to manufacture/quality. And the VQ series engine is miles ahead of the 3.8 in gas mileage......don't even argue....

You're the only person I know who would think that some cheap dime-a-dozen GM engine is better than the VQ series....
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Old 06-26-2003, 12:52 PM   #72
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Quote:
Originally posted by Pick


No, the f-bodies run mid to high-13's in the 1/4, if that.
Where do I even start with this one? Really, how old are you? I feel like I'm talking to a 5 year old.
READ HERE (from one of my previous posts):
That 'official' 1/4th mile time you are quoting was done by both Car and Driver and MT on regular roads, not the track. A lil' bit of a difference there.
If that is indeed what they run then how do about 10,000 people in LS1.com have timeslips showing low 13 second runs bone stock right down to the paper air filter?

No, f-bodies do not run high 13's in the 1/4th. They run low 13's and high 12's in very good conditions. (e.g. good track prep. a few weight removers) Again, stop spouting more BS. It make you looks bad.
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2002 Navy Blue Metallic Camaro
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Stereo: 2 RF HE2 DVC subs, 600w MA amp.
Performance Mods: Z28 Catback, Cutout
Appearance Mods: 35% side, 5% rear tint
Charcoal leather seats
Comming soon: 3.73's, LSD, Air Lid, VS Cam
Not in that order....
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Old 06-26-2003, 12:55 PM   #73
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Here's a little bit for you:

Nissan's VQ series engine.....
Ward's Top Ten Engine-
1995 1996 1997 1998 1999 2000 2001 2002 2003 ...... and counting

"Nissan's 3.5-liter VQ V6 makes a power argument for naming Nissan's VQ engine family one of the best V6 designs of all time," -Ward's Auto World

I have never seen the 3.8 on that list before......interesting, Now, shut up, you are wrong about this. Its been on there ever year since it was introduced.
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Old 06-26-2003, 12:57 PM   #74
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Quote:
Originally posted by Pick


My family has owned 4 3.8 liter engines from GM and 3 VQ series engines. I think I know what the hell I'm talking about.... My brother no longer owns his GM 3.8, because it cost him more to keep up with the engine than the car was worth. My Grandfather drives neither one of his two now because both of them broke down right at 120,000 miles. My other brother's Pontias Parisienne 305 lasted longer than that!! Diversity, as in the VQ is now available in 9 cars released from Nissan just THIS YEAR on 4 different platforms. The 3.8 is cheaper to manufacture, but is not a good enough engine to have the combination of cheap to manufacture/quality. And the VQ series engine is miles ahead of the 3.8 in gas mileage......don't even argue....

You're the only person I know who would think that some cheap dime-a-dozen GM engine is better than the VQ series....
I think you don't know what the hell your talking about, and you never had since the beginning of this thread. The 3.8 V6 has been put into 8 cars in the last few years. It is overall a very reliable engine. So you had problems? I don't know why you did, but you got unlucky with your 3.8's. Every manufacturer (even Nissan) puts out engines/parts/cars that are lemons every now and then. You got one, or more. I never said the GM 3.8 was better than the VQ series Nissan V6. Where did you get that from? I just responded to someone's post about it being WAY better than the GM 3.8 and told them to post FACTS not opinions.
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2002 Navy Blue Metallic Camaro
M5, 3.23's
Stereo: 2 RF HE2 DVC subs, 600w MA amp.
Performance Mods: Z28 Catback, Cutout
Appearance Mods: 35% side, 5% rear tint
Charcoal leather seats
Comming soon: 3.73's, LSD, Air Lid, VS Cam
Not in that order....
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Old 06-26-2003, 12:58 PM   #75
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Quote:
Originally posted by Tekone




high 12's in very good conditions. (e.g. good track prep. a few weight removers)
Then let me ask you this: How do F-bodies run high 12's stock if an SS camaro runs a low 12 1/4 with cams, headers, exhaust, new rear-end, intake manifolds, and slicks??? And that is at the track!!! You're not making sense......
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