2003 Nissan Z Car ( 350Z )

[JBL85]

compared to Domestic motors it is.

[Zcarfan]

the actual size of the piston would equat to a 5.25L V-8, that is NOT a small displacemant, unless you are comparing it to a 4.1 L 6 that jeep uses which is HARDLY a high performance engine

[HellBent]

Zcarfan,

You are correct. The Z motor is not small displacement. I mis-spoke. I was merely trying to illustrate a point that the Z motor does not have comparable cubic inches to small block V-8s. Therefore torque will always be lower, and inevitablly HP as well.

I would also agree that both the Mustang and Camaro are aging platforms, that use antiquated suspension technology. However, these are the cars that you will meet at the stop lights, and they are the top dogs as we speak.

If the Z comes in at close to $30k it is going for market share in Cobra and SS teritory. It is my opinion that the Z will not be able to out muscle the Cobra and the SS, on the street. The Z will surely sell out and be hugely popular, as it is a very cool looking car. However, bragging rights will remain in the hands of the ponys. Autocrossing, hmmmm... I guess that depends on the course.

Finally I will agree with you again, on the point of which would I rather own. Certainly it would be the Z car. (I can tell you from painful experience, the delights of being serviced by Chevrolet.) Although, the Z would be more attractive with say 320-330 hp. I just think that entering into this forray with 280hp is an odd bet that sets a beautiful car at a disadvantage. I am sure that Nissan will up it's HP numbers each year for marketing purposes, alla the "pony car wars". Keep in mind that GM will only retire the Camaro for 2 years, then introduce the Australlian sourced platform that has all the bells and whistles.

As a side note: The reason I am posting on this sight is my intrest in the Skyline GT-R, and other cool Nissans. If a Skyline GT-R was for sale through Nissan in the USA I would most likely be driving it instead of the Vette. I would also have probablly jumped at the Z if it had a bit more power. Still... the future is full of wonderfull posibilities!

Peace,

Al

[Zcarfan]

I dont know if you know, but the Z will start at under $27 (that is will the same 280+ engine), so indead it is a great deal

btw, look for a G35 infiniti coupe in the fall and a possible M35 coupe a year later (said to use a high output V-8), this info is what I have gotten directly from an infiniti rep, as for the Skyline, it should be interesting to see if the skyline will be called the "M35" or if that is a completely different car?

[HellBent]

Zcarfan,

I guess we will have to see what is standard on the Z, and how much the goodies cost. I think the stock Camaro SS and Cobra are $27k and $28k respectively, which puts them all in the same price range.

This means the stock SS and Cobra, will have around a 40-45hp advantage. This is pretty sizeable advantage. I am interested in seeing how much the Z will weigh. I believe the SS and Cobra are around 3600lbs.

If you go by the quick rule of "for every 100lbs lost, you gain 1/10th of a second in the quarter mile", the Z might have a chance. My estimate would be that it would have to be around 3200lbs and have a 3:42 - 3:55 rear axle ratio to be competitive.

It will be interesting to see what the final product weighs, and how it performs. I am also curios what the top of the line will cost. I thought someone posted a figure of around $37k.

Anyway, time will tell all.

Peace,

Al

[Zcarfan]

Z is supposed to be between 3150-3200 lbs, but I still don't really expect it to beat an SS, but maybe hang with it?, sure.

[Holyterror]

The strength of the Z is not its stock hp, trust me. I need not remind anyone of how easy it was to pull a couple hundred extra horses out of the last Z. The VG35 is a powerful motor. Power can be easily remedied; the Z already has a leg up in handling (I think). We'll see if these weight balance issues pan out by August. I'll bet that within 3 months of the Zs arrival, you'll be able to hit 350 hp with aftermarket parts.

BTW, torque and horsepower are not so dependent on displacement, not in this context. Granted, if you had two nearly identical engines of modular design, one a 3.5l V6, one a 4l V8, the V8 would produce more power and torque. But it's more of an apples and oranges scenario with the Z and the Camaro. Unless Chevy breaks with tradition and goes all-out high tech on the next Camaro, it will be the same old technology that's been propelling American cars for a long time. We're starting to get into overhead cams, thankfully. The Z's engine is pretty much on the cutting edge. It has everything short of Neo-VVL (which it wouldn't hurt Nissan to implement in America over the next few years). It's simply more dynamic and thus more efficient. I know I'm asking for it by preaching this doctrine, but facts are facts. I'm not saying the next Camaro will be a big, slow dinosaur. I am saying that relying on ancient pushrod technology and huge displacement will not be enough, not in this millenium (there, I finally made one of those "new millenium" statements).

And you know, I could build a motor with a tiny bore and a really long stroke and out-torque a V8 with an I4. If I wanted to. I guess. Well, just trying to prove a point.

[VH45DETTwithNOS]

Lets see a 9.6 litre in-line 4? mmmmmmm 1912 here we come.

Point taken, and remember the Z wasn't ment to be a turbo car to start with, it only got the turbo to compete in the American GT series, and it when on from there, I think the VQ35DE will have aftermarket Turbo kits for it , hey there is already one being moulded off the Z32 VG30DETT, they are waiting on the placement of the turbos, or it could even be a single turbo layout who knows..


I wonder if the new Z will beat the R35? It did in the past!

[VH45DETTwithNOS]

ok wrong idea, how would you do it I mean the small bore, long stroke?

you not talking of masterbating are you. Hee Hee.

[Holyterror]

The 350Z versus the R35 GT-R? Well, if the GT-R gets the VQ30DET, then the Z will have a .5 liter displacement advantage. With an equal turbo setup, the Z will generate more power. And without the added weight of AWD, the Z could be faster. However, we really don't know much about the GT-R yet (I say we, but maybe it's just me).

No, I wasn't talking about masturbation, although that's about what it would be like trying to run anything on that hypothetical 4-cylinder. Taking a tiny motor and stroking it to death with the longest rods possible will make a bunch of torque because it's the product of force and distance. Think leverage. But even with a large capacity for torque, the motor wouldn't rev very high with the miniscule bore, so peak power will be low. Plus, that torque isn't going to be available at low rpm because the super-long rod screws any chance for exhaust gas scavenging.

As you can see, I will make up all kinds of stupid analogies to make a point. Don't assume that they make sense.:smoker2:

[HellBent]

Holyterror,

I think modifying stock cars is great. It is the bond that unites most enthusiasts no matter what brand they support. It promotes continued competition and developement. It makes our sport what it is today.

However, I think that saying any car is better modified than another is merely an argument like "religion" or "politics". There is no final answer, and you will never convince anyone they are wrong. Case in point: Mustangs and vettes have twin turbo kits on the market as well. The type of power they produce is dizzying. To keep things simple it is best to talk stock. Everyting else is armchair quarterbacking, on the senate floor, wearing holy robes.

The next Camaro should be interesting. I saw an article a while back, that it will be an Australian platform, with 4 wheel independent suspension, and rear wheel drive. (Anyone please provide facts, I haven't had time to research this car.) Also I believe Chevy said there would be a two year hiatus. It will be intersting to see if the price stays low. As we already know, Chevy isn't shy about horsepower either. Could be interesting! Then again maybe we will get a skyline stateside too! Man, we live in amazing times. Forget the sixties, today is the best muscle car era ever!!!

Peace on earth, and let horsepower reign supreem!

Al

[Zcarfan]

HB, your right, this HP race is great and the people who benefit the most is the consumer!! it is awesome, who thought that they would ever see stock cars from Honda, subaru, nissan, mazda, etc,etc... doing under 6 seconds 0-60 and UNDER 40K!!!! these are great times! glad that all the "conservative" companies have caught on (actually theu always had these cars, they just kept them in Japan)

[VH45DETTwithNOS]

Holyterror, damn it it's good to have someone with a sense of humour, cheers dude.....:sun:

Anyway, back to the Horse power thing, Man I live nissans, but a stock car in standard trim, if I had to go for a non-nissan, will always be and I mean always the Corvette, I would have brought one by now, but I do love the Z 06, thats cool, ZR-1 is the god of the new age muscle cars, to me it has no rival, I hate the Viper but the guy who lives down the road from me own a RT/10, we race each other when we get the chance, they are fun to drive but compare it to the Vette or 300ZX, nah it's not the same, both the Vette and 300 don't have the horsepower but they rock, it's all about what you like, I like Nissan's, but If I had money left over ZR 1 would be welcome in my garage, well if I got a Callaway Corvette then the table would turn....

Callaway Corvette Vs Viper GTS-R Vs Superbeast 300ZX GTS

Callaway Corvette 560KW rear wheel horse power 22" wide rims, oh yeah, just wait until I finsh the 300ZX(WELL actually get started on it)



Keep it evil.......

[efi-street]

Originally posted by Holyterror
The strength of the Z is not its stock hp, trust me. I need not remind anyone of how easy it was to pull a couple hundred extra horses out of the last Z

The big reason for that was the turbos. Easy to do with a turbo car
(look at the TT Supra). But you're not going to magically pull
a couple hundred extra horses out of a NA engine. Not flaming you,
but this thing needs a turbo or 2.

[smartboy88]

Nice car!!!