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Old 02-22-2005, 05:18 PM   #16
mootchie2103
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Re: Want to know what bike to start on **read this first**

Quote:
Originally Posted by Z_Fanatic
A little more additive from other experts:

__________________________________________

Getting ANY 600cc for a first bike is a bad idea that may also be an expensive form of suicide. Even worse is getting a BRAND NEW 600cc bike. Here are a few reasons why.


1. Knowledge of Subject Matter

Right now your at the most basic beginners period, the very start of the learning curve (i.e. you aren’t even aware of what is that you don't know). A personal example of this is when I started taking Shotokan Karate. On the first day of class I didn’t even know what “inside-block” was, let alone how to do it with correct form. After I learned a bit, then I could start to realize how bad my form was and begin the process of improving it. I had to become AWARE that inside-blocks even existed before I could realize that I couldn’t do them correctly. This is to say that it takes knowledge OF something to be able to understand how something works, functions, performs, etc. Having NO motorcycle experience, you’re not even aware of the power, mistakes, handling, shifting, turning dynamics etc. of any bike, let alone a sport bike. In the process of moving through the learning curve you begin to amass all this new information…you also make a ton of mistakes.



2. The Learning Curve

When you’re learning to do something, you make mistakes. Without them the learning process is impossible. Making mistakes on a sport bike can be fatal. The thing newbies need to learn above anything else is smooth throttle control and proper speed & lean going into turns. On a 600cc bike, a mistake with throttle control or a turn can cost you your life before even knew what happened. A bike that is less forgiving of mistakes (ninja ex 250, 500, or an OLDER 600cc bike) is far safer to learn on.
Ask yourself this question; in which manner would you rather learn to walk on tightropes A) with a 4x4 board that is 2 feet off the ground B) with a wire that is 20 feet off the ground? Most sensible people would choose “A”. The reason why is obvious. Unfortunally safety concerns with a first motorcycle aren’t as apparent as they are in the example above. However, the wrong choice of what equipment to learn on can be just as deadly…regardless of how safe, careful, and level-headed you are.



3. I’ll be Safe, Responsible, And Level-Headed While Learning".

Sorry, but that excuse doesn’t cut it. To be safe you also need SKILL (throttle control, speed, leaning, etc). Skill comes ONLY with experience. To gain that experience you must ride your bike in real traffic, with real cars, and real dangers. Before skills are developed which can foster safe riding, you need a bike that can mirror the level of safety that you’re currently at, not a cutting edge race bike that will throw you off the first chance it has.
Imagine someone saying, "I want to learn to juggle, but I’m going to start by learning with chainsaws. But don’t worry, I’ll go slow, be careful, and stay level-headed while I’m learning". Like the tightrope example above, the answer here is isn’t hard to see. Be careful all you want, go as slow as you want, be as cautious as you want…your still juggling chainsaws! Without a foundation in place of HOW to juggle there is only a small level of safety you can aspire towards. As such, it’s better to learn the skills of juggling with tennis balls first. The same holds true for learning to ride a motorcycle.



4. I Don’t Want A Bike I’ll Outgrow'

Please. Did your Momma put you in size 9 shoes at age 2? Get with the program.


5. Cost (“I don’t want to waste money on a bike I’ll only have for a short period of time”)

Smaller bikes have good resale value, because other (smart) people will want them as learner bikes. You’ll prolly be able to sell a used learner bike for as much as you paid for it.
If you drop your brand new bike that is fresh off the showroom floor while your learning (and you will), you've just broken a directional, perhaps a brake / clutch lever, cracked / scrapped the fairings ($300.00 each to replace), fucked up the bar ends, etc. It's better and cheaper to drop a shit bike that you don’t care about than one you just spent 8k on. Most newbies drop bikes going under 20MPH, when the bike is at its most unstable periods. They often only don’t result in physical injury, just a big dent in your pride and….



6. EGO

Worried about looking like tool on a smaller bike? Well, you'll look even more like a tool with a brand new, but fucked-up, 2004 bike (or a new bike that you can’t get out 1st gear without stalling 15 times). Any real rider would give you props for going about learning to ride the *correct* way (i.e. on a learner bike). If you’re stressed about impressing someone with a “cool” bike, or embarrassed about being on small bike then your not mature enough to handle the responsibility of a motorcycle. Try a moped. After you've grown up revisit the idea of a motorcycle.



6. "Don’t ask advice if you don't want to hear the answers".

A common pattern:
1) Person X asks for advice on a 1st bike (wanting to hear certain answers)
2) Experienced rider’s advice against a 600cc bike for a first ride (this isn’t what Person X wanted to hear).
3) Person X thinks, "Others fuck up while learning, but that wont happen to me" (as if they are invincible, hold superpowers, have a ‘level head’, etc).
4) Experienced riders explain why a ‘level head’ isn’t enough.
5) Person X makes up excuses as to why veterans riders “don’t understand why I’d be able to handle a 600cc bike whole others can’t”.
6) Person X as a total newbie, who couldn't even tell you what a shift pattern is, by some grace of God now understands what the best bike to buy is and totally disregards all the advice he asked for in the first place (which brings us right back to the very first point I made about knowledge).

I’m not trying to be harsh, I’m being real. Look all over the net. You’ll see person after person after person telling newbies NOT to get a 600cc bike. Why? Because we hate them? Because we don't want others to have cool bikes? No way. The more riders the better (assuming there not squids)! The reason people like me and countless others spend so much time writing huge rants on this subject is because we actually care about you. We don't want to see people get hurt. We don't want to see more people die in senseless accidents that could have been avoided with a little logic and patients. We WANT you to be around to ride that 600cc bike you desire so badly. However, we just want you to be able to ride it in a safe manner that isn’t going to be a threat to yourself or others. I hope this was of some help, and feel free to email me with any questions.
Speaking of help, this is a great time to plug the MSF (Motorcycle Safety Foundation) course. The MSF course is a GREAT learning opportunity for new riders. The courses are offered all over the USA. I listed a link for their web page at the bottom of this post (or do a Goggle search and check you local RMV web page.). The MSF course assumes no prior knowledge of motorcycles and teaches the basics of how to ride a bike with out killing yourself (and NO, just because you passed the MSF course dose not mean your ready for an R6, GSX, CBR, etc). They provide motorcycles and helmets for the course. It is by far THE BEST way to start a motorcycle career that I hope will last you lifetime. Again I hope this information helped, and feel free to email me with any questions.

-chr|s sedition
Boston, MA
sedition@pipeline.com
www.msf-usa.org

You seem to know alot! Anyways...what bike would you recommend for a girl....5'2'', 105 lbs. to start out on? I was told that I could get a 600, just lower the back a little and lower the sprocket. What do you think? Thank you!
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Old 04-05-2005, 11:57 AM   #17
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do u think a 600 or 636 is for ME!!?¿

i understand were yall are comming from about the aggravation, same questions over n over, but i have read what yall have to say. i first started riding when i was 12,(81 xr80, then moved up to a (02 xr100,
then a pit bike 02 xr50, i was dying to race so i got a 91 kx 125, it broke down so i got my last bike it was a 01 cr125 all aftermarket i loved it to death the best bike i have ever had, i raced a lil bit, and i was running out of saved money. no support from parents, they didnt like the idea of motocross. so i had to sell my baby.

so i moved on and did something i could afford cross country mtbiking. yea yea i dont wanna hear it! i got a job now and saving all my money for a street bike. im depressed over bikes b/c its been soo long. i rode on the back of my friends ninga 600 and loved it. a few of my friends are saving and want the gsx750's. poor ppl they have no 2 wheel experience. my mind is set on a crotch rocket lol. i will take classes from harley, and i know motocross and street are totally different riding styles but i want yalls opinion. can !I! get a used 600-750cc bike. we dont live in a big city so i could get the feel of things around town for a while.
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Old 04-05-2005, 12:24 PM   #18
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Get a early F2 or F3, they're 600s, but will keep you out of trouble during learning stage.
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Old 05-11-2005, 04:05 AM   #19
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Re: Want to know what bike to start on **read this first**

I want to thank everyone for the advice. Im kind of a bigger guy who saw a 5ft 5 inch chick on a gsxr750 yesterday and was like DAMN I can do that, but you guys made me realize that She was probably riding since the age of 5.... Now I wont make that fatal mistake......Greatly Appreciate it!!!!
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Old 05-25-2005, 12:00 PM   #20
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Re: Re: Want to know what bike to start on **read this first**

Quote:
Originally Posted by 007COUPE
I want to thank everyone for the advice. Im kind of a bigger guy who saw a 5ft 5 inch chick on a gsxr750 yesterday and was like DAMN I can do that, but you guys made me realize that She was probably riding since the age of 5.... Now I wont make that fatal mistake......Greatly Appreciate it!!!!
That, or she's a MORON like a girl I know who went from a 250 that was too big for her to a brand-new 750 that is WAY too big for her. Some people are beyond advice, and won't learn from the mistakes of others. Thank YOU for listening!
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Old 05-25-2005, 12:01 PM   #21
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Re: Re: Want to know what bike to start on **read this first**

Quote:
Originally Posted by mootchie2103
You seem to know alot! Anyways...what bike would you recommend for a girl....5'2'', 105 lbs. to start out on? I was told that I could get a 600, just lower the back a little and lower the sprocket. What do you think? Thank you!
Start on a 250. It is MUCH more forgiving, and it will be more comfortable since there won't be much need for lowering anything. You ALWAYS feel more comfortable when you are more in control of things, like keeping the bike upright.
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Old 07-23-2005, 09:25 PM   #22
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Sorry for posting a a pretty dead thread, but I didnt want to start a new topic because its pretty related. From what I read, the Kawasaki Ninja 250r is pretty scrunched for tall riders. Im new and was looking at a 1992 250r for my first bike, but am worried that it might be too small. Im 5'11"-6' and was wondering if it was a bit too small for me .(The bike, not the displacement.) Thanks a lot!
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Old 10-05-2005, 09:40 AM   #23
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Re: Want to know what bike to start on **read this first**

I don't know why an SV650 hasn't been mentioned in this thread (unless I missed it...). It's a damn near perfect motorcycle for most types of riders. It's something you'll never outgrow, is very forgiving in nature for a first timer, comfortable, a twin, and makes a damn good club racer, too!
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Old 06-24-2006, 05:46 PM   #24
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Re: Want to know what bike to start on **read this first**

deals, the sv was mentioned by Z (how could he not, he's biased anyway)

one thing to keep in mind for all newbies is the power versus skill.

just because you can ride a 600 doesn't mean you can ride well.

go for some track days and you get a good idea of how many better riders there are than you. I ride a 954 and have been "beaten" by smaller bikes all the time. these guys (ands girls too) have bikes that are perfectly suited to them.

i've had an old 400 go around me on the outside while i'm scraping the deck. the other guy was smaller than me and had is bike on full throttle were i couldn't go full throttle.


so having a big bike may be "cool" and make you feel good but if you can't ride it to at least 75% of its potential, why have it. you'd have much more fun on a bike you can ride well.

in reality, a 600 is the most power ANYONE could ever need (except for idiots like me). so why jump straight into it?


here's one of Z's links that should be in this thread
http://www.sportrider.com/ride/
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Old 02-17-2007, 02:27 PM   #25
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Cool Re: Want to know what bike to start on **read this first**

Saturntangerine... you need to loosen up... and stop abusing ur power... one word was wrong... who closes a forum because they used a made up word? Jeez... It would have been interesting to hear about a few motorbike accidents... everyone could've learnt from it... that could mean you've murdered one of us today... denied them valuable knowledge... I am asking that u re-evaluate your decision. If you want I'll change the description.
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Old 02-28-2007, 04:47 PM   #26
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Re: Want to know what bike to start on **read this first**

i didnt want to post asking what bike i should get because i know it annoys people, i know i shouldnt get something too big, but is there anything you would suggest for a girl in particular? im 5'7 and i weigh like 140...and thank you so much for posting this. it really was incredibly helpful.
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Old 05-18-2007, 01:05 AM   #27
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Re: Want to know what bike to start on **read this first**

I'm not a classy rider but I'm looking for a good motorcycle to buy?


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Old 05-25-2007, 04:31 AM   #28
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Re: Want to know what bike to start on **read this first**

I'm not a classy rider but I'm looking for a good motorcycle to buy?

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Old 06-14-2007, 01:37 AM   #29
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Re: Want to know what bike to start on **read this first**

isay doo what u want go get a bussa 600 are slow ant easy to get use to get something hat wont get boaring a bike will only go as fast as u make it so just get what ever bike is best for u
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Old 07-12-2007, 02:20 PM   #30
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Re: Want to know what bike to start on **read this first**

Hey guys, I really liked all your posts and advice. I was also of the belife that buying a big bike would be the best and that i would be "careful" But after reading all your posts I changed my mind.

My question is, do the rules apply to cruisers as well? i.e would buying a 600cc cruiser be as risky a buying an R6 or Ninja,etc... And what are your views on 400cc bikes? Like the honda VFR400
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/VFR400-NC30-Mi...QQcmdZViewItem

Thanks in advance
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