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Old 10-07-2004, 12:57 PM   #31
jmrev
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Re: Advice to new riders.

remember for all of the new riders, DONT RIDE FAST,ive know many that have been injured!
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Old 10-15-2004, 02:47 AM   #32
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Truth of the matter

Like I previously stated in a topic, I feel that these advice topics for new riders are ineffective because they are too vague and broad. Plus they also lack things that seasoned riders think are important topics that should be covered. This will be one of several future posts that I hope to clarify things.

New prospects to the motorcycle world tend to have little clue on what they are getting themselves into. Unlike a bicycle, you can't just get on these machines and exploit them. It's a lot more complex than the twist of the throttle and work on the clutch. People don't understand how physical riding a motorcycle can be.

The riding position alone can put fatigue on a person's body. Rider geometry plays a huge part on safety. If the bars are too low and a bit forward it might create fatigue within the wrists, shoulders, and the upper back. Riding long distances on sport bikes will tire out the body, in which a tired body will make mistakes thus putting themselves in danger.

Another concept on how physical riding a bike can be is how the body is used in different ways to manipulate the bike. The way the rider shifts his body makes huge differences in front end to back end weight. In essense, the rider's weight will shift the overall weight distribution and can do several things with it. One example: the rear wheel begins to spin when launching from a stop. You have two options 1) letting off the throttle a bit 2) move your butt to the back of the seat. Doing both at the same time will bring the best results. This also applies to rolling on the throttle when exiting off a turn. Second example: the front end of the bike beings to lift as you accelerate. An inexperienced rider will probably ease of the throttle a bit to bring the front down. The best way to keep the drive yet alleviate the front end lift is using the legs to push the body forward into the tank which puts more weight onto the front end. This works under braking too. If the rear ends begins to lift shifting the body rearward will help bring the bike down.

Turning the bike at speeds over 25 miles per hour will require some physical force when turning. The bike really wants to go straight. You can move the bars in what direction you want to go but the rear wheel will want to go straight. So the body is used to coax the whole bike to travel into and through turns. This is where things get complex. Leaning the bike over isn't hard but shifting the body around with your arms and legs takes getting use to. If the rear end starts to feel vague while leaning, moving the body to the rear may cure feeling of nothing. Leg's can cramp and get worn out when riding at a fierce pace.

Another part of the body that will get tiresome is the wrists. When under braking whole body wants to move forward thus putting a lot of pressure onto them. When you accelerate harder, your wrists will get a workout as you hold tightly unto the bars.

Aerodynamics will play a part on fatigue. If a sport bike has poor wind protection, accelerating and keeping speeds become a task. The feeling is best described as "being pried off the handle bars". If a rider does a long haul on the highway on a bike with little wind-protection might have no feeling in the upper body since his hands were just holding on so tightly.

If your body is extremely tired don't go any further than you need to because it becomes dangerous. All that I talked about, I doubt a person will get tired riding around town doing tasks like braking and using the body to manipulate the bike. But if you are doing longer hauls you may want to plan on where you take break-stops.
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Old 10-15-2004, 02:58 AM   #33
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Rider safety is all about knowledge but there are several things that knowledge can't save you from. All this talk about wearing helmets and leathers, riding within your limit, and obey the rules of the road but how about things that you can't protect yourself from?

Helmets and leathers do provide a good amount of protection but it's all up to a point. Sure leathers have padding in important areas so certain parts are less prone to bruising. How about a highside and you fall on your arm in an awkward position? Your leathers will protect you from road-rash but not from broken bones and dislocated sockets and what have. Your helmet will protect your head but not neck. You can easily fall, slide and have an impact that will break you neck. Typing that I up I instantly think of Daijiro Kato at Suzuka last season. Even riding within your limit won't gaurentee protection from the elements you can't control. Unlike race circuits where there is runoff if a rider falls, real-world environment does not provide runoff so that's when things become truly scary if you put it all into perspective.
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Old 10-15-2004, 03:23 AM   #34
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All helmets go through proper crash-test regulations but always find something that fits comfortably yet has a snug fit. Always look for helmets that provide the best ventilation.

Shark Helmets: check out the RS2Fi and RS2 Race

When it comes to leathers I recommend kangaroo leather rather than cow leather. Kangaroo leather-made suits are lighter and stronger than cow leathers. Look for ones that have good ventilation. Best to read reviews to see what others think.
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Old 10-15-2004, 03:29 AM   #35
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Re: Advice to new riders.

its not about eliminating danger, its about minimising danger, you cant be totally safe in any part of life, unless you simply lock yourself in your room and never step outside..

if you train yourself to watch ahead and predict traffic movements, while wearing appropriate gear, your going to minimise the risk of something going wrong, but you'll never be able to stop that stupid son of a b$*ch next to you in there car changing lanes right into you, or the SUV that slams into your ass while your at a stop light, then manages to find the brake pedal when his on TOP of your chest, breaking 43 bones and puncturing your lung..
but hey, this things happen.. and as we say here in australia; when sh*t happens, get a shovel.
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Old 10-17-2004, 11:00 AM   #36
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Re: Advice to new riders.

Quote:
Ok I gotta say i'm not diagreeing with what your saying but my dad has been riding 20+yrs on and off never once laid a bike down i've been riding 1 1/2 neither have I. i understand that it can happen but to say it WILL is kinda well blunt and untrue i think.
I was on a motorcycle forum with a guy who said he hadn't gone down in 25 years of riding. Within the first two years of my participation in the forum he went down. He was shaken up a bit and considered giving it up, but reconsidered and stayed on the road. A year later he hit a deer and got quite broken up. After the bones healed, he got a "new" old bike and got back on the road.

There are two kinds of riders. Those who have gone down, and those who will go down. Actually, those who have gone down are still likely to go down again...

I have ridden without a helmet, usually when giving someone a lift on the pillion, 'coz I've lent 'em mine. I figure that if something happens, the person who should die for my irresponsibility should be me and not my passenger.

I was one of only two riders I have ever seen wear a leather jacket in Jamaica. I was ridiculed for it often by people who asked me if I was cold. I tell them it's not for cold weather but for hot asphalt. Ridicule can't hurt me. An asphalt surface at 20 mph can.

When I rode, I went down about eight or nine times. The only one that directly involved another vehicle was the last, when a taxi hit my handlebar and I lost control. I had my leather jacket on in all but the first. I had a helmet on in all of them. I am alive and relatively unscarred as a result.

I want another motorcycle. And every time I say or think this my shoulder and wrist begin to ache. But I think this and say this anyway.

I am putting a bicycle together which I intend to ride on the road. It is good exercise and cheap urban transport. It is a lot healthier than a motorcycle. It is not even a tiny bit more safe, however. In fact, it's probably less safe.
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Old 10-21-2004, 03:40 PM   #37
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Re: Advice to new riders.

People who say they've never dumped are either lying or haven't ridden enough.

The falling paragraph should have been the VERY FIRST paragraph in the starting post.
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Old 11-26-2004, 03:20 AM   #38
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Re: Advice to new riders.

I just read these three pages of posts.......

Its not IF you'll go down, its WHEN........ and how many times is up to you.

I have a friend who is now parapalegic (loss use of legs) Helmet would have prevented this.

Pre-flight inspect your machine..... Its like skydiving, you would check your parachute first. Every time.
-tire pressure and condition
-fuel
-brake condition and fluid level
-oil
-lights front and rear
-general condition of your machine
-etc........

When you go down, it has been suggested to me that you try to stay with the bike... If you try to kick off of the beast that just threw you, It can slide running in gear, if the tires catch and the bike stands up it'll possibly run you over. This could really ruin your day. (I want to hear comments on this theory)

YOU are responsible for your safety. Any car, bus, cow, pedestrian, dog, geico squirrel, can do anything, at any time. Be prepared for the unexpected..... LOOK FOR IT....IT IS THERE!

Lane position...... dont ride away from the traffic going in the same direction.
EXAMPLE: If in the left lane ride in the right side of your lane nearer to the other cars in the right lane. This keeps your headlight in their sideview mirror longer -AND- Cars overtaking you will allow more spacing before moving over in front of you.
EXAMPLE 2: Center lane, cars on both sides..... ride down the center of your lane....Right lane,oposite of left (once you try this and understand It'll come naturally to you) SEE AND BE SEEN
Remember, if you cant see them in their mirror, they probably cant see you. Dont linger in their blind spot.

I use highbeam headlight all day long. Use directionals... they will help you also SEE AND BE SEEN

Always be in 1st gear and observing in your rearview mirror when stopped. Be ready to go SOMEWHERE if the car about to hit you from behind didnt see you. Sometimes I'll even release and squeze the brake to get the brake light to turn off and on once or twice.

I am always scanning for trouble. I try to make head movement part of my regime. Especially when I am trying to make sure that the old lady that is about to make a right over the top of me, see's me. I'll take a quick look to the left, and if I'm pretty sure that something is not going to jump at me, I'll make a sweeping head movement towards the driver about to make the right turn ....... I find this helps them make eye contact/recognition (still, don't trust eye contact) Be prepared for anything!

When it rains..... Stop light..... You'll have more traction, more stopping power in the puddle on either side of your lane, then in the middle. Here's the deal: Hundreds of cars a day stop at that light, many will drip oil... right down the center. (have you noticed that black streak?) When it rains the water gets through to the asphalt and actuall lifts the oil up.....very slippery. (remember the toll booth falls in the previous posts)

These are some of the things I wanted to impress upon new riders. I enjoy riding and even sometimes without the brain bucket. I try to do it as safe as I can without detracting from the comfort. I think Jousting must really suck. (riding hot sweaty horses at each other, at high speeds, wearing a steel armor and chainmail suit, while pointing sharpened sticks at your opponent) Full leather, helmet, boots, Florida, summer.... not enjoyable.
For me personally, some leather boot that protects the ankle bone is a must. The thought of sliding with the cycle ontop of my leg and grinding away at that bone......

Everyday, we must make a choice as to what extent we are going to sacrafice comfort for safety. It is my beleif that there is also a level of discomfort that becomes a safety issue in itself. Every man dies, but not every man knows how to live well.......

There's not many expierences like blasting north on I-95 at a hundred forty something miles an hour, buck naked at 3am and have a large palmetto bug fly up out of the median and hit you dead smack in the addams apple...... now thats where you descide how you want to live the rest of your life!
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Old 12-10-2004, 09:33 AM   #39
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Just been looking at the previous pages. Got to agree that it is when you go down, not if. The best way to learn is time in the saddle, and that results in putting yourself in the crosshairs of asshole on the road.

Been riding for around 10 years and started with a triumph Daytona T595. Thought I was invincible with all that power and acceleration, but it took less than two seconds for me to get point fixation on a corner and I stuffed into a barrier at 60mph. I walked away only because I was wearing full leathers and a quality lid. The bike was written off but was rebuilt and we did another 10,000 miles together.

The point? Well it takes time to gain the experience you need, just like anything else in life. New riders dont have to be frightened, but they need to be aware that they will go down at some point. Could be on a corner, could be at a junction (I dropped a fully loaded BMW GS1150 with girlfriend on board at a junction, not very impressive!) It may not be your fault, but the more miles and hours you do, you will become acutley aware of what you are doing along with everyone else around you. Thats the holy grail, guessing what everyone will do around you.

I ride in the UK and Europe, but at the moment I am living in Dubai. The roads are amazing, the Police dont care and we regularly have 160mph plus breakfast runs here. But when the traffic starts, everyone is out for themselves. Thats where your experience is learnt and where you can use it. Any idiot can do full throttle all day long, but it takes a good rider to be able to make a decision as to where and when its best.

Speed does not kill, its stupidity that does. After all, accidents happen in one place, so spend as little time in that place as you can!

Happy trails
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Old 12-25-2004, 06:25 AM   #40
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Re: Advice to new riders.

I agree about the leathers and one thing that hasn't been mentioned here is how plastic /nylon based clothes can melt into the skin from the friction of the slide. As far as helmets are concerned its your life you can be any vegetable you want if you chose to rat race at high speeds it is best to pick out a casket beforehand. The design of most Jap bikes will send you through the air like a rocket! know your skill & limitations .
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Old 02-06-2005, 02:10 AM   #41
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Re: Advice to new riders.

About a year ago when I still lived up in Buffalo NewYork there were I think 3 or 4 bikers up there, sport bikes ofcourse, and I lived on this nice long stretch of striaght awy, I think it was probably a good 3 miles long, and those bikes just loved to go flying down it top speed.

My house sat ontop of a small hill right across from a Legion hall, and this legion hall had a few very well grown pines right infront of the driveway making it very difficult to pull out of because you almost always couldnt see what was coming.

So anyways I was outside mowing the front lawn and I hear the bike coming, and its frigging flying, I mean I could hear it peeling out at the light and man the engine roaring, never heard anything more beautiful, and the guy on the bike must have been thinking the same thing because just as he was coming up on the legion hall a mini-van pulled right out infront of him, seeing him too late hit the brakes, he didnt swerve, hit the side head on, went UP and OVER the hood of the van INTO oncoming traffic.

Sadly this guy never had a second chance, he was killed by a lane of traffic, as I recall it was a small semi that ran over him befor it could stop. This guy probably would have survived, or not even had the accident had he not been driving recklessly.

After that I have had MUCH MUCH more respect for bikes on the road and ALWAYS try to give them as much room as possible wether I'm passing them, or they are passing me or I'm just driving behind one. Oh and I dont think this guys funeral was an open casket most of the riders in the area didnt wear any protective gear other then a helmet.
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Old 02-06-2005, 02:59 AM   #42
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Sportbikes are generally far more stable at high speeds than low speeds. Especially with good tires, one can just “feel” the tractions good as cars. But some riders often inherit a false sense of security or invincibility because of smooth stability, which sometimes causes them to overestimate their skill and confidence. So whenever they open full throttle as early as possible for the maximum rush, they often forget to realize that they’re still on two wheels on public roads occupied by soccer moms. It's not the track.
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Old 05-14-2005, 01:49 PM   #43
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Re: Advice to new riders.

I want to thank all of you for your post. I too was considering a motorcycle. I was gonna take the basic riders course, get me a ninja 500 or a gs 500 and practice my skill. I live on a military base which requires another safety course just to ride on base. I was planning on just on base to and from work, since it is much safer than riding in town. I have now can to the decision that a bike is not for me thanks to this post. It is not a bad thing. I was just so unsure if I should get one or not and since I am that unsure its probably not for me. My decision was based on just being bored, were im at there is not much to do. I am young, 20 married with an 8 month old child. I just think riding is not worth it, just to satisfy my boredom. I'm gonna use the money I would have used for a motorcycle to buy my daughter and wife a puppy. thank you all
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Old 05-25-2005, 12:09 PM   #44
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Re: Re: Advice to new riders.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lmno
I want to thank all of you for your post. I too was considering a motorcycle. I was gonna take the basic riders course, get me a ninja 500 or a gs 500 and practice my skill. I live on a military base which requires another safety course just to ride on base. I was planning on just on base to and from work, since it is much safer than riding in town. I have now can to the decision that a bike is not for me thanks to this post. It is not a bad thing. I was just so unsure if I should get one or not and since I am that unsure its probably not for me. My decision was based on just being bored, were im at there is not much to do. I am young, 20 married with an 8 month old child. I just think riding is not worth it, just to satisfy my boredom. I'm gonna use the money I would have used for a motorcycle to buy my daughter and wife a puppy. thank you all
THANK YOU! People who listen make all this ranting worth-while! Congrats to you on your baby, and good luck finding something to ease your boredom!
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Old 06-13-2005, 04:43 PM   #45
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Thanks for posting all your great replies. I am new to this forum. I try to find material for my husband to read regarding helmets. I sent him an email "Advice to new riders". He isnt a new rider but is very reluctant to wearing the helmet. 2 years ago, he crashed his '02 Suzuki 600GSXR and it was the day he happened to be wearing it. Another motorcycle in the opposite direction crossed the yellow and he swerved to avoid that, went off the road hitting a gopher hole. The front tire dug in and he flipped the bike. The bike went over and over punching the dirt..he was thrown off obviously. He was lucky not to have been hit by the bike. He was in the hospital 3 days with a broken arm and his neck in a brace and alot of red abrasion.

Well....Now he owns a '05 Suzuki 750GSXR and I agreed to matching jacket with skid plates and cool matching sparkling helmet. I passed him one day going home and he had the helmet clipped to the side of the bike. I was so mad. Told him he was selfish not thinking of his family when he splatters his brain. He knows the risks. So, this is why I hunt for these sites about training and safety.

I own a '03 Sukuki 650 SV with full fairing. Matching silver jacket with skit plates and sparkly helmet. I ride with both at all times. This is my second bike. I had a '86 Honda Hurricane 600 before and we sold both bikes after the crash.

I am taking the STAR safety class next month. I am told that everybody gets something out of the class. Experienced riders or new.

Happy Riding Everyone. Thanks for listening!
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