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Old 07-30-2009, 12:47 PM   #1
webtek
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Angry Dealerships that SUCK!

Pinnacle Nissan Sucks | Scottsdale, Arizona

I've been around for over 50 years now and have had the opportunity to purchase and own many cars in my life. I have also had the unique experience of dealing with car dealerships and the unnecessary tactics they use to sell you a car .

I recently visited a new Nissan dealership in Scottsdale Arizona to purchase a used car. The experience left me feeling used, abused and taken advantage of.

My story is quite long so I would prefer if you visited my site and read the story there. I am not advertising anything and my only intention is to alert the public of this dealerships unethical tactics and abuse they subjected me to during the process of buying the car.

Whatever you do, do NOT visit Pinnacle Nissan of Scottsdale Arizona.

Nick Mataeo and Walid in Finance have the Bait and Switch tactic down to an art. I hope my story helps you to be aware of the tactics you may encounter from the salesmen and finance staff at this dealership.

Have a great day,
WebTek
PinnacleNissanSucks dot com
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Old 07-30-2009, 05:41 PM   #2
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Re: Dealerships that SUCK!

Well I been around for more than 60 years, and maybe going more senile than you, because I can't find the link to your website ???... show me the way
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Old 07-30-2009, 06:05 PM   #3
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Re: Dealerships that SUCK!

I dug a little more into your question and figured your post http://www.pinnaclenissansucks.com/ it's a very interesting post, I will reply with my thoughts.
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Old 08-01-2009, 09:00 PM   #4
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Re: Dealerships that SUCK!

I read http://www.pinnaclenissansucks.com/ and this statement you made in your post I will comment on.
Quote:
I do not mean to be ungrateful for what Pinnacle Nissan did for me, especially after a bankruptcy. I am very grateful to them, however, being in a situation where you are at the mercy of others should not be reason to take advantage of that person, which is what I feel these people did.
I would like to be on your side of the fence, but sorry to say I have never seen it happen that way, when you enter a dealership they have a lingo all their own and the magic word bankruptcy classify you as a roach or flake and dealerships will exploit this weakness, sorry to say again being very harsh you're a pigeon with no wings to fly away,,, you must upgrade yourself to the dealership lingo of a squirrel and you will have some power to fight back.

I looked at Pinnacle Nissan track record, and found only one issue dated back in 91.
Summary,,, you have a blemished credit, and there is no dealership called Mother Teresa
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Old 02-07-2010, 11:25 PM   #5
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Exclamation Re: Dealerships that SUCK!

I have owned 6 Nissans so far in my lifetime. Pinnacle Nissan DOES suck. I have had 3 poor experiences with their service department. The prices are overpriced, and if the sales department works ANYTHING like the service department, they must REALLY rip people off.

One day, they had a white marker board sign advertising Air Conditioning Freshener service for $199.00! When I asked the service manager what they did, he said they just spray something in there! I asked if I could buy it, and he said no. Maybe they think people in North Scottsdale are willing to pay extra?

On TWO occasions, the Service Manager was rude and told me I was welcome to visit another dealership!

One occurrence, my service light came on and the vehicle took 10 tries to start, and it barely started. Checker told me the code, and it needed a new crankshaft position sensor. When I brought it to Pinnacle, they reset the light and tried to "reproduce the problem". Well, it didn't I drove home, and wallah...the light came on, and the car wouldn't' start! I had to take it to ANOTHER dealership 15 miles out of my way to get quality service. That dealership immediately replaced the part....and guess what. The light NEVER came on again.

The techniques they use in the service are are VERY fishy! Instead of replacing a failed part, they are very stingy and cheap. They even want to charge you "exploratory fees" for diagnosis, to try to get you to pay more. They are crooks in my opinion. They even make you sign some nonsense when you bring your vehicle into the bay! When you have service done, they don't show you how much it would have cost like other dealerships. Very Very odd. This mentality is coming from the management. Management that should have been fired YEARS ago. They just don't get it. The business practices are obviously poor based on my experiences and all the negative posts.

This dealership has been in trouble with racism regarding black customers in the sales area. Some salespeople were making comments about race and poking fun at the customers, and it was all over the news. I believe the EEOC was involved. http://www.eeoc.gov/eeoc/newsroom/re...e/2-19-03.html

Not sure why www.pinnaclenissansucks.com isn't working. It must be their attempt to "clean" their name.

This is a Vantuyl dealership. They own Midway and Peoria Nissan. I avoid ALL 3.

Previous employees of these Vantuyl dealerships have VERY poor and derogatory comments about their previous employer. They quit and went to work for the better ones. Try Riverview and Power. These places have extraordinary customer service.

When you GOOGLE Pinnacle a TON of derogatory stuff comes up. Rip Off Report comes up too. I humored myself and checked the Better Business Bureau, and they state the record is being "UPDATED", whatever that means.

It will be a cold day in Hell before I would buy a Nissan from these folks. I already avoid them for service. And, it's a shame since they are the closest dealership to my home, and I will be in the market for a new Nissan this summer! They really need to change their business practices, and learn how quality service gets repeat business! What is the saying? Each poor customer service experience is communicated to 10 more people, and it keeps going on and on and on.

Even the map of this dealership has a 2 out of 5 star rating, and comments include "WORST DEALERSHIP EVER".

See this link below:

http://maps.google.com/maps/place?hl...ed=0CA4QqgUwAA
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Old 02-08-2010, 12:16 AM   #6
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Re: Dealerships that SUCK!

Interesting Google link.
Note a couple of those reviews are very positive. Those positive reviews are most likely fake 'plants' placed there by the dealership staff. Fake reviews are like toupees. If you know what to look for, they are easy to spot.

I have a management, marketing and sales background and, imo, the fundamental weakness in the retail auto industry is the dealer. Most dealers engage in retail business and sales practices that simply would not be tolerated in most other industries.

Auto manufacturers go to great lengths to design and market competitve cars. It's a shame that the typical dealer ruins much of that competitve advantage and has to make the average purchase decision feel like such a sleazy, unpleasant affair.

Imo most dealers know how to treat customers properly. Most commercial and fleet customers are treated with far more honesty, integrity and respect than the typical consumer.
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Old 02-08-2010, 01:42 AM   #7
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Re: Dealerships that SUCK!

Interesting stories from this dealer :P

My parents have had 2 completely different experiences with the same dealer.

When my dad bought his truck from them (Broadway Dodge) the employees were all informative and weren't complete dicks about trying to sell a truck. Then my mom comes in simply wanting to look at a couple models, gets raided by some salesman that knows WAY less about the cars he's trying to sell than I did (I was 13..... thats not easy to do). She was trying to look at the Calibeer (changed her mind basically the instant she saw it) and was trying to tell the guy she didn't want to buy it but he kept pushing it one her, eventually got her to test drive it.... whada you know, it didn't fit any of her needs and she didn't like it. Then the idiot trys to pitch the Avenger, fits the profile even less. Trys to push her to test drive that, she test drives it and hates it even more, and it wasn't even a new car (which he insisted it was), smelled like smoke, and had over 30k miles on it. I tryed to ask him about the Journey, he simply ignored the interest, after a strange series of events, while she was trying to get a quick estimate on her MDX for if she wanted to trade it in at some point (she insisted on not buying that day) they asked to have the key to check if any lights were on (a couple were and we told them that) got fed up with their bullshit and went to get the MDX, which had been moved, and neither the manager nor the guy we were talking to knew where the hell it was, went back inside to find the keys, which they couldn't find, after about 20 minutes of them panicking they finally found the keys, they went and found the car (another 20 minutes had passed by then) and asked us if we wanted them to bring the car around, quite literally told them to f off.

Don't know what went wrong with that dealer but something definitely did. They had expanded earlier that year and apparently switched management cause the guy we worked with wasn't even working there anymore.

EDIT: http://maps.google.com/maps/place?so...ed=0CAsQnQIwAA
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Old 02-08-2010, 08:56 AM   #8
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Re: Dealerships that SUCK!

Quote:
Originally Posted by MagicRat View Post
Interesting Google link.
Note a couple of those reviews are very positive. Those positive reviews are most likely fake 'plants' placed there by the dealership staff. Fake reviews are like toupees. If you know what to look for, they are easy to spot.

I have a management, marketing and sales background and, imo, the fundamental weakness in the retail auto industry is the dealer. Most dealers engage in retail business and sales practices that simply would not be tolerated in most other industries.

Auto manufacturers go to great lengths to design and market competitve cars. It's a shame that the typical dealer ruins much of that competitve advantage and has to make the average purchase decision feel like such a sleazy, unpleasant affair.

Imo most dealers know how to treat customers properly. Most commercial and fleet customers are treated with far more honesty, integrity and respect than the typical consumer.
This is one of the reasons I'm amazed GM closed up Saturn. This was just about the only affordable GM brand that was building a reputation on excellent dealer customer service, and it was working. People that went in to buy a $20K all-in compact car were treated like they were buying a $50K luxury car, and it went well beyond the purchase day. Even premium GM brands like Buick and Cadillac were often shared with lower-tier GM brands like Chevy, and the service between them was a half-assed effort. Saturn was different, too bad to see them go. This has nothing to do with Nissan, but I think MagicRat's point about good dealer service is an important one. Why spend $100M in marketing a competitive, capable new vehicle if the dealers drive away customers?
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Old 02-09-2010, 01:50 AM   #9
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Re: Dealerships that SUCK!

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Originally Posted by Shpuker View Post
Interesting stories from this dealer :P

My parents have had 2 completely different experiences with the same dealer.

When my dad bought his truck from them (Broadway Dodge) the employees were all informative and weren't complete dicks about trying to sell a truck. Then my mom comes in simply wanting to look at a couple models, gets raided by some salesman that knows WAY less about the cars he's trying to sell than I did (I was 13..... thats not easy to do). She was trying to look at the Calibeer (changed her mind basically the instant she saw it) and was trying to tell the guy she didn't want to buy it but he kept pushing it one her, eventually got her to test drive it.... whada you know, it didn't fit any of her needs and she didn't like it. Then the idiot trys to pitch the Avenger, fits the profile even less. Trys to push her to test drive that, she test drives it and hates it even more, and it wasn't even a new car (which he insisted it was), smelled like smoke, and had over 30k miles on it. I tryed to ask him about the Journey, he simply ignored the interest, after a strange series of events, while she was trying to get a quick estimate on her MDX for if she wanted to trade it in at some point (she insisted on not buying that day) they asked to have the key to check if any lights were on (a couple were and we told them that) got fed up with their bullshit and went to get the MDX, which had been moved, and neither the manager nor the guy we were talking to knew where the hell it was, went back inside to find the keys, which they couldn't find, after about 20 minutes of them panicking they finally found the keys, they went and found the car (another 20 minutes had passed by then) and asked us if we wanted them to bring the car around, quite literally told them to f off.
"Losing" a difficult customers personal property, such as keys, drivers license, credit cards etc is a very common tactic, used to keep the customer in the dealership longer, often so the sales staff can work on them more or in the hopes the customer may reconsider the purchase.
It is very likely the keys were not lost at all, but you folks were being manipulated.
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Old 02-10-2010, 02:05 AM   #10
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Re: Dealerships that SUCK!

Quote:
Originally Posted by MagicRat View Post
"Losing" a difficult customers personal property, such as keys, drivers license, credit cards etc is a very common tactic, used to keep the customer in the dealership longer, often so the sales staff can work on them more or in the hopes the customer may reconsider the purchase.
It is very likely the keys were not lost at all, but you folks were being manipulated.
I could definitely see that aswell. The dealership is just a complete s*it hole though. They've been nothing but horrid customer service for the past couple of years
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Old 02-19-2010, 09:31 AM   #11
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Re: Dealerships that SUCK!

[quote=MagicRat;6105802]Interesting Google link.
Note a couple of those reviews are very positive. Those positive reviews are most likely fake 'plants' placed there by the dealership staff. Fake reviews are like toupees. If you know what to look for, they are easy to spot.

Your answer about toupees made me crack a smile, you are so very right, this same statement also apply to shopping ebay where way to many buyers get hooked on a sellers feedback rating to close the deal. " some sellers simply get a new ID if negative entry's outweigh the positive "

I have a management, marketing and sales background and, imo, the fundamental weakness in the retail auto industry is the dealer. Most dealers engage in retail business and sales practices that simply would not be tolerated in most other industries.

Most industries ? Plumbers - Electricians - Air/furnace tradesmen just to name a few are then angels ? , every industry has their own way of doing things, their own inner workings, processes, even languages and secrets. All businesses are in the business to make money and over the years, they have learned hundreds of ways to make the most amount of money possible on every deal. Please take 2 minutes to read this link http://www.usedcartips.org/occupation.html and then supply an answer as to why dealerships would not be tolerated in most other industries, like what industries are so pure ??? name a few.

Auto manufacturers go to great lengths to design and market competitve cars. It's a shame that the typical dealer ruins much of that competitve advantage and has to make the average purchase decision feel like such a sleazy, unpleasant affair.

Sleasy - Unpleasant Affair ?, It's an easy out for consumers to say, dealers and salespeople are scum, but the real truth is, a lack of knowledge creates fear, seeking knowledge creates courage.

Imo most dealers know how to treat customers properly. Most commercial and fleet customers are treated with far more honesty, integrity and respect than the typical consumer.

And the simple reason is, commercial and fleet customers have done their homework or they would not be hired to perform this task.
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Old 02-19-2010, 12:49 PM   #12
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Re: Dealerships that SUCK!

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Sleasy - Unpleasant Affair ?, It's an easy out for consumers to say, dealers and salespeople are scum, but the real truth is, a lack of knowledge creates fear, seeking knowledge creates courage.

And the simple reason is, commercial and fleet customers have done their homework or they would not be hired to perform this task.
Ray, are you being paid to be an apologist for the industry?

Essentially, you are blaming the consumer for the dysfunctional auto sales industry. This is nonsense.

Theoretically, a well-informed consumer does not need the dealer sales force at all, because they know everything!

The dealer sales force should exist to aid ill-informed consumers and help them make an informed decision.

Instead, what do dealers almost universally do? EXPLOIT THE CONSUMER because of their lack of knowledge. IMO there is something very wrong when a consumer must do all sorts of homework on products, negotiation tactics etc, on their own to prepare themselves for dealing with the dealers.

Yes, some industries work this way, such as the residential construction trades. But most industries do not operate this way. Most companies use professionalism and trust at some level to gain a competitive advantage with the consumer.

All I am saying is auto manufacturers need to do the same in order to be more competitive in the marketplace....... to overhaul the dealer system and remove the opportunity for the wholesale exploitation of the consumer. . How to do this??? One way is to remove the distribution monopoly of the dealers. Allow well-informed buyers to buy a car over the internet, direct from the factory. Dealers can still make money servicing these new cars....... and still be able to sell them..... to those consumers who need or value the personal attention.

I am sure dealers would squawk about the unfair factory competition. So what? Dealers have had carte -blanche for decades now and have produced just about the most disreputable consumer industry in existence. Meanwhile, GM and Chrysler are costing the taxpayers billions. Should the dealers be allowed to screw-up the publically-funded bailout to fuel their greed? Nonsense. IMO since the taxpayers now own GM and Chrysler, the distribution network should now work in the best interest of the shareholders (aka the public), with as much competition as possible.

Is this a reasonable attitude? Well, consider my position. I have bought new vehicles both for personal use, and for fleet/commercial use. Given my management/marketing background, I am so utterly dismayed at the exploitative nature of the sales industry, I refuse to buy any car from a dealer. I will always buy used from a private seller (which is also a PITA). And I am not the only one. A responsible manufacturer could easily sell a new car to me in the future if I could buy direct, at the appropriate price.

Last edited by MagicRat; 02-19-2010 at 01:20 PM.
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Old 02-19-2010, 02:36 PM   #13
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Re: Dealerships that SUCK!

[quote=MagicRat;6111146]Yes, some industries work this way, such as the residential construction trades. But most industries do not operate this way. Most companies use professionalism and trust at some level to gain a competitive advantage with the consumer.

You are yapping around my Q I posed to you ,,, name a few industries that use professionalism ? without huge gain in mind.
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Old 02-20-2010, 02:09 PM   #14
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Re: Dealerships that SUCK!

Quote:
Originally Posted by MagicRat View Post
"Losing" a difficult customers personal property, such as keys, drivers license, credit cards etc is a very common tactic, used to keep the customer in the dealership longer, often so the sales staff can work on them more or in the hopes the customer may reconsider the purchase.
It is very likely the keys were not lost at all, but you folks were being manipulated.


I agree with your statement somewhat, but will not go as far as to say a very common tactic.

Being retired and looking back I am not very proud of my accomplishments as for the tactics I used selling - buying or trading, but the bottom line was, show compassion and the dealer down the street will get the business. I never used tactics stalling a customer from leaving, but I did let a customer leave on many occasions knowing the customer would return as a credit card - drivers licence or some document was in hand.

Now, let's look at why I would be a scumbag not telling the customer up front " wait " you forgot this,,, first off I knew the buyer would have to return, by which time I would have a new game plan, second, here is a buyer that have wasted likely over an hour of my time with me getting paid zero, Most salespeople work in a dealership with an UP system " taking turns " over an hour with a customer could be the only one for the day or having missed several others, therefore every trick in the book is used. Sure you can counteract by saying the consumer has also wasted over an hour,,, I don't think so,,, the consumer is on leisure time and salesperson on pay time.

Here is a statement you made in this thread " The dealer sales force should exist to aid ill-informed consumers and help them make an informed decision "

I agree 100% , if your trying to figure the different toppings between a big Mac and a Cheese burger, but those are not the cards buyers are dealt buying a car in the system we live in.

As for me being paid to be an apologist for the industry?

I am sure you made that entry with humor in mind, my web site is all about dealing with buying a car, I agree with mostly everything you say that buying a car should not be or having reached the diffeculty, but such are the times we live in.
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Old 02-20-2010, 10:47 PM   #15
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Re: Dealerships that SUCK!

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This is one of the reasons I'm amazed GM closed up Saturn. This was just about the only affordable GM brand that was building a reputation on excellent dealer customer service, and it was working. People that went in to buy a $20K all-in compact car were treated like they were buying a $50K luxury car, and it went well beyond the purchase day. Even premium GM brands like Buick and Cadillac were often shared with lower-tier GM brands like Chevy, and the service between them was a half-assed effort. Saturn was different, too bad to see them go. This has nothing to do with Nissan, but I think MagicRat's point about good dealer service is an important one. Why spend $100M in marketing a competitive, capable new vehicle if the dealers drive away customers?
I agree with you. I had an 08 Saturn Aura, and, the service experience with it rivaled that of my Jaguar dealer. Over the years , I've dealt with other GM dealers in my area, and, frankly, I won't do business with them anymore. When Saturn closed down, GM lost me to Honda.

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