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Old 12-14-2007, 06:40 AM   #16
es_class
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Re: Thinking about getting a bike?

Even in the permit manual....the msf course....the literature on the web...and discussions on this forum....all tell u to practice countersteering. Although u may do it without knowing what is actually happening....or doing it naturally bcuz it is the only way to steer a bike....u still need to learn what it is u r doing and why it works the way it does.think about it.....if ur moving fast and going thru a turn...and the bike starts to move towards the outside...its the knowledge of how to countersteer that may stop someone from going into a panic and give them that idea that they have to push the handlebars a little harder in the opposite direction. For u to say its not something u learn and something u need to understand...is foolish and sounds like u r just closed minded and want to sound like a pro. Or simply just want to hear urself talk. the Truth is an undisputable fact. An opinion is just ur point of view. I have read too much and understand what I read. Countersteering is something that definitely must be taught to a beginner so they understand what is happening and how it works. To say its not something a beginner who never rode before needs to learn....is foolish and very very bad advice. When that day comes that a car pops/cuts out in front of him/her....knowing how to countersteer and how it works might save that person from clipping that car or smashing into the back of it. So many beginners have those kinds of accidents or hit a wall in a turn or run off the road because they don't understand the science behind countersteering. They panic because they don't understand the applied technique. I'm sorry man...I don't respect ur opinion...and will be leary of any advice u have to offer me or a beginner in the future. I respect the debate and difference of opinion factor...so I am in no way being unhumble or hostile. Just that one mans opinion cannot outway too too many lectures, lessons, information...and even professional curricullum. Read ur permit manual again....take it back to the basics. if u haven't taken the course...go take it. While u may be an experienced rider and all of those things may come naturally to u.....it will not be the case for a new rider. Even with that being said....u know what happens when u countersteer and u know what it entails so u r a better rider bcuz of it. U don't just do it bcuz that's the way it is.
"Well g...I dunno how it works it just does....duh huh duh hud doy" I doubt that that is the level of intelligence u r dealing with. Think about it. The gentlemen who posted this originally...has never b4 ridden and depends on ur opinion and knowledge. Peace.
Just for the record....I have nothing further to add so if u feel the need to add more in defense of ur viewpoint...then by all means u win. Ur words will be final. Its been fun.
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Old 12-14-2007, 08:13 AM   #17
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Re: Thinking about getting a bike?

Quote:
Originally Posted by es_class
Even in the permit manual....the msf course....the literature on the web...and discussions on this forum....all tell u to practice countersteering. Although u may do it without knowing what is actually happening....or doing it naturally bcuz it is the only way to steer a bike....u still need to learn what it is u r doing and why it works the way it does.think about it.....if ur moving fast and going thru a turn...and the bike starts to move towards the outside...its the knowledge of how to countersteer that may stop someone from going into a panic and give them that idea that they have to push the handlebars a little harder in the opposite direction.
No, it's the knowledge that you give it more gas while continuing to steer how you've always been doing it.

Quote:
For u to say its not something u learn and something u need to understand...is foolish and sounds like u r just closed minded and want to sound like a pro. Or simply just want to hear urself talk. the Truth is an undisputable fact. An opinion is just ur point of view. I have read too much and understand what I read. Countersteering is something that definitely must be taught to a beginner so they understand what is happening and how it works. To say its not something a beginner who never rode before needs to learn....is foolish and very very bad advice.
The more important thing to practice is THROTTLE CONTROL, BRAKE CONTROL, and SPEED AWARENESS because those things will get you into and out of trouble more than thinking about how to turn the damn thing ever will. Even that loses its effectiveness at high angles and one has to lean off the bike to take ever sharper turns at speed, which is a learning curve in itself. Sorry, i've been riding for 16 years, I never learned countersteering, and i didn't hear about it until maybe my 14th year riding. To me telling someone to practice that is like telling them to practice breathing and blinking while on the bike. It's just something that's done without thought. You don't need to teach a kid countersteering on his bicycle, its just done naturally. If for some reason you don't "learn" it on your first turn, your career on a bike will be extremely short.

Quote:
When that day comes that a car pops/cuts out in front of him/her....knowing how to countersteer and how it works might save that person from clipping that car or smashing into the back of it.
Quick reactions, cool nerves, and defensive driving (or offensive if one is so inclinded) will keep one out of that situation more than all of a sudden getting confused as to which way to turn the handlebars. I've been in similar situations and i've never once thought to myself as it was happening "OH SHIT! which way am i supposed to turn the bars again??!"


Quote:
So many beginners have those kinds of accidents or hit a wall in a turn or run off the road because they don't understand the science behind countersteering. They panic because they don't understand the applied technique.
No, most single bike accidents involving a bike going off the road is because they went into a turn way too fast, paniced and slammed on the brakes, causing them to lowside, or stood the bike up and then slammed on the brakes, causing them to whack whatever's on the outside of the turn.

Quote:
I'm sorry man...I don't respect ur opinion...and will be leary of any advice u have to offer me or a beginner in the future. I respect the debate and difference of opinion factor...so I am in no way being unhumble or hostile. Just that one mans opinion cannot outway too too many lectures, lessons, information...and even professional curricullum. Read ur permit manual again....take it back to the basics. if u haven't taken the course...go take it. While u may be an experienced rider and all of those things may come naturally to u.....it will not be the case for a new rider. Even with that being said....u know what happens when u countersteer and u know what it entails so u r a better rider bcuz of it. U don't just do it bcuz that's the way it is.
"Well g...I dunno how it works it just does....duh huh duh hud doy" I doubt that that is the level of intelligence u r dealing with. Think about it. The gentlemen who posted this originally...has never b4 ridden and depends on ur opinion and knowledge. Peace.
Just for the record....I have nothing further to add so if u feel the need to add more in defense of ur viewpoint...then by all means u win. Ur words will be final. Its been fun.
I'm all about practicing how to ride the bike, maybe do a quick test of "push left=left" and in your mind you go "oh no shit, so that's how it works" but other than that it doesn't take any concious thought to do it. There are much much MUCH more important things to practice and look out for when riding. Hell, I'd rate remembering to put up your kickstand before taking of as being more important, if your bike is unequipped with a kickstand cutout switch.
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