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Old 01-19-2015, 10:33 PM   #1
searcherrr
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Question Brake Light On 2003 LX 3.8L Despite Replacing Recalled Speed Deactivation Switch

I have never been able to get the brake light to turn off in this van and it is going to be used soon for disabled people to travel 330 miles to my wedding. The entire braking system has been looked at (by the shop's eyes) and fluid topped off and calipers bled, hydraulic cylinders replaced when I first got it (last year) and recently the speed control deactivation switch was replaced despite Ford stating that it didn't need to be replaced in this van. I was SURE this would resolve the brake light issue and get cruise control back working again, but it DID NOT.

Also, thinking the FLOAT was stuck in the master cylinder reservoir and not having a way to clean it, I replaced the reservoir with a new one too.... and that also DID NOT resolve it.... although afterwards for the first time ever the brake light now flickers on and off. We are theorizing that the brake fluid in the entire system just needs to be flushed, because we removed (with a turkey baster syringe type thing) fluid from the reservoir so we wouldn't have to bleed the lines afterwards. So when driving (guessing this is happening when GASSING the pedal) sometimes the brake light turns off, although in that short duration cruise control still doesn't work... and eventually the brake light would come back on.

What other issues would cause the brake light to remain on?
What other issues would cause the brake light to turn on and off since after we replaced "some fluid" and the fluid reservoir plastic part?

Here's a little history on the van if you want it:
www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=1089742&highlight=brake
http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbul...ighlight=brake
http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbul...ighlight=brake - Original "thinking about buying thread"
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Old 01-20-2015, 12:12 PM   #2
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Re: Brake Light On 2003 LX 3.8L Despite Replacing Recalled Speed Deactivation Switch

Does the yellow ABS light come on with it sometimes too?

It could be the sensor at the e-brake handle. Jiggle the handle a bit and see if that causes it to go on/off..
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Old 01-23-2015, 12:35 AM   #3
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Question Re: Brake Light On 2003 LX 3.8L Despite Replacing Recalled Speed Deactivation Switch

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Originally Posted by scubacat View Post
Does the yellow ABS light come on with it sometimes too?

It could be the sensor at the e-brake handle. Jiggle the handle a bit and see if that causes it to go on/off..
no yellow.

will try ebrake handle next.

no one else?
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Old 01-23-2015, 03:09 PM   #4
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Question Re: Brake Light On 2003 LX 3.8L Despite Replacing Recalled Speed Deactivation Switch

If I disconnect the sensor at the ebrake handle and IF its that sensor causing the light to come on... will unplugging the sensor turn off the brake light??? or opposite? Where do I access the sensor plug? At the handle or somewhere else?
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Old 01-23-2015, 04:29 PM   #5
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Re: Brake Light On 2003 LX 3.8L Despite Replacing Recalled Speed Deactivation Switch

Are you talking about the instrument panel BRAKE warning light, and not the rear exterior brake (stop) lights?
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Old 02-02-2015, 10:57 PM   #6
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Re: Brake Light On 2003 LX 3.8L Despite Replacing Recalled Speed Deactivation Switch

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Originally Posted by tomj76 View Post
Are you talking about the instrument panel BRAKE warning light, and not the rear exterior brake (stop) lights?
Sorry.... yes... the INSTRUMENT panel brake warning light. HELP!! lol
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Old 02-03-2015, 11:47 PM   #7
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Re: Brake Light On 2003 LX 3.8L Despite Replacing Recalled Speed Deactivation Switch

Use a scanner capable of pulling abs codes (just to cover all bases) and see if there are any diagnostic codes stored.
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Old 02-04-2015, 09:21 PM   #8
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Re: Brake Light On 2003 LX 3.8L Despite Replacing Recalled Speed Deactivation Switch

The warning light is trigger by (1) parking brake handle switch (2) brake fluid level sensor in the master cylinder. I don't believe the ABS sets the red "BRAKE" warning lamp, only the orange "ABS" light.
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Old 07-07-2015, 12:14 AM   #9
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Question Re: Brake Light On 2003 LX 3.8L Despite Replacing Recalled Speed Deactivation Switch

We've replaced the master cylinder brake fluid reservoir and float (all in one) and again the SCDS recalled switch as well (even though this van seemingly didn't need it according to Ford's records) and the RED "BRAKE" light continues to illuminate on the instrument panel.

Only thing we haven't really looked at closely is the switch at the e-brake handle... because I'm not sure where it is... at the base of the e-brake handle under the rubber handle's boot?? good guess??

So nothing else besides "(1) parking brake handle switch (2) brake fluid level sensor in the master cylinder" would/could cause the BRAKE red light to appear in the instrument panel???

If a certain FUSE were popped as a result of the previous original SCDS being onboard prior to its replacement, could that cause the BRAKE red light to light up on the instrument panel??
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1995 3.8L Ford Windstar GL
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Old 07-07-2015, 07:26 AM   #10
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Re: Brake Light On 2003 LX 3.8L Despite Replacing Recalled Speed Deactivation Switch

The brake fluid that leaks out of the switch can corrode wiring beneath and inside the wiring loom, including the loom that heads over to the ABS module (the one you should examine).

I replaced the ABS module on ours years ago and meant to write up the procedure, can't recall what sort of warning lights caused me to do this but it fixed it.
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Old 07-09-2015, 12:54 PM   #11
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Re: Brake Light On 2003 LX 3.8L Despite Replacing Recalled Speed Deactivation Switch

The switch is usually found on the parking brake handle under the rubber boot. The RED light is meant to tell you that you have a serious problem (non-functional ABS is not considered as serious) with the braking system. Again, low brake fluid and parking brake left on are the only two causes that I am aware of.
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Old 07-09-2015, 06:51 PM   #12
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Re: Brake Light On 2003 LX 3.8L Despite Replacing Recalled Speed Deactivation Switch

A bad ABS module WILL turn on the red light. The yellow ABS light may be on as well but the bulb burned out. Trust me, I've repaired mine twice and both times the red BRAKE light was on.

Before doing anything, SCAN for ABS codes. If you see a whole bunch of them (starting with a "C" like C1155, C1158, C1123, etc.) that's the classic bad ABS module. You can just remove it and send it off to a rebuilder who will resolder the board for you for $50 and send it back. But again, I strongly urge you to plug in a scanner that can pull ABS codes. It's a well documented problem that the ABS ECU in these vans (along with many other makes and models) have the problem with cold solder joints making them stop working eventually. I'll bet you a Chicago stuffed pizza it's your ABS module; you just need to drive up here in your Windstar to collect! (But first fix your ABS )
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Old 07-10-2015, 10:28 AM   #13
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Re: Brake Light On 2003 LX 3.8L Despite Replacing Recalled Speed Deactivation Switch

-- "A bad ABS module WILL turn on the red light."

I believe it, I've not had that experience and I don't recall reading anything in the manuals. However, my ABS light has been on quite a lot without the red BRAKE light. Actually, I'd like to get my ABS codes read but AutoZone uses scanners that only read power train codes, so I'll have to upgrade my scanner capability to do that.
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Old 07-10-2015, 12:00 PM   #14
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Re: Brake Light On 2003 LX 3.8L Despite Replacing Recalled Speed Deactivation Switch

If you lived in the Chicago area you could use mine I got the innova 3160 from amazon on black friday a few years ago for like $120 and it seems to read everything except transmission codes (which I probably wouldn't touch anyway.) Nowadays I'd probably just get one of the $40 bluetooth pieces that plug in and connect to a laptop or smartphone. Call a couple of other stores (oreilly and advance auto) and see if they have one you can use or you could always just ask an independent garage. They'll probably do it for 10 or 20 bucks if not for free.

Our van also had just the yellow light recently and it turned out to be the front left wheel sensor. I have no idea what was wrong with it but it was definitely bad. Just to clarify, I don't mean change your front left sensor though. My scanner returned C1155 which specifically indicates that sensor. And even then, I first tested the connector for voltage and the sensor for resistance to verify it was the sensor and not wiring somewhere.

The red light though is almost certainly the ABS module itself. If you pull the codes you'll get a ton of them showing all the sensors failed, etc. I used this company to rebuild mine and they did a perfect job (even sent me a rebuilt unit up front in exchange for a core fee which was super convenient.)

http://masrepair.com/

Buy the service through their ebay store (search windstar abs):

http://stores.ebay.com/airbagmodulestore/
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Old 07-11-2015, 04:20 PM   #15
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Re: Brake Light On 2003 LX 3.8L Despite Replacing Recalled Speed Deactivation Switch

Quote:
Originally Posted by LTDzak View Post
The brake fluid that leaks out of the switch can corrode wiring beneath and inside the wiring loom, including the loom that heads over to the ABS module (the one you should examine).

I replaced the ABS module on ours years ago and meant to write up the procedure, can't recall what sort of warning lights caused me to do this but it fixed it.
When we replaced the SCDS we did so as a preventative measure as there was "ZERO" brake fluid under the master cylinder at all... under or on the wiring etc... nothing. I was able to determine that the switch was indeed the one listed as needing replacement, but again the FORD records stated this van wasn't eligible for the recall and didn't need it.. so I did it out of my own pocket.

I guess I should've inspected the "lower wiring" areas in case there was a leak in the past and the upper wiring area (just under the master cylinder) was completely dry, but when I saw all that dry I didn't feel the need to check it out.

FYI - THE LIGHT THAT IS ON IS THE LIGHT THAT STATES BRAKE WITH THE CRESCENT SHAPED PARENTHESIS LOOKING LINES ABOVE IT. This light is indicated by number 21 in the diagram.
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"I drive the newest 1995 Ford Windstar anywhere..... when its not broken."
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