No dash gauges, but dash lights

82Stang · 02-05-2010, 11:16 PM

1997 Plymouth Grand Voyager SE 180K 3.3L

I read other threads about the connections under the hood, both sides, which I unplugged and replugged. I also pulled the IOD fuse for a little bit. Then I removed the cluster and looked it over. Looked good to me.

Got code P1698 for manufacturers assembly control or something to that effect. Thought I checked all the usual culprits. The dash lights work fine, so does everything else. The dash gauges just don't work. This is something that has been an intermittent problem with the dash gauges going out periodically when hitting a bump. It leads me to believe a connection. But I checked all those. Any other ideas?

Thank you.

tempfixit · 02-06-2010, 06:04 PM

Try resoldering the cluster. The connections look good with the naked eye but may be faulty.

http://www.ingriddijkers.com/CaravanPics.html

82Stang · 02-06-2010, 09:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tempfixit

Try resoldering the cluster. The connections look good with the naked eye but may be faulty.

http://www.ingriddijkers.com/CaravanPics.html

One thing caught my eye. The separate cluster board that has the odometer and Trans range selector on it, both pieces of glass had a, I guess it could be called a burn spot underneath the glass in the left bottom corner of the odometer one and the right bottom corner of the Trans range one. It looked like a half inch circle of black or burned spot underneath the glass covering. I assume this means it's bad.

The other board that contains the gauges is totally separate and I didn't see anything that looked unusual there. It's not a problem for me to set a new drop of solder on these, I'm just wondering if I don't have the same problem or not. The lights etc all work. The gauges don't. I have had no luck trying to get them to work. I checked all those things I mentioned before. When trying the instrument panel diagnostic, there is no light up at the odometer or trans range for anything.

The engine light gives me a code P1698 for manufacturers controlled and auxillary. Also have ABS light on. I clear codes for 1698, but they come right back. I can definitely resolder, but doing that will probably make the joints overlap. If I've given some new info, what's your next move?

Thanks.

bigj-dog · 02-08-2010, 11:21 AM

My '97 voyager used to have the same problem here and there, but the radio would also cut out. If you shut it off and restarted, it's almost always be fine the second time, i never fixed it because it was VERY intermitten, but i'm assuming it was the ignition switch. If you're wondering about the cluster, i'd just find a buddy who has one and swap them momentarily, or get a used one, for the $40 it'll cost you you'll save hours of head scratching.

82Stang · 02-19-2010, 09:54 PM

Got another cluster from the boneyard. It had the same burn marks on the odometer/trans range boards. So, I am assuming they either come that way, burn marks are where they assemble the product, or this assembly was bad also. I tend to think that the cluster is not at fault. After looking and looking at the modules under the hood, I found this. The right side front has the Body control mount, of which I tapped with a hammer and no change while the vehicle was running. No change in the tachometer or fuel and temp guages, as this is the main problem. They don't read anything. Then I tapped the left side, which I believe has the PCM. As I was tapping the PCM with the engine running, the van would cut out as I tapped. Sometimes it would rev higher, but most often it would die out. What does this mean? Is the PCM, or whatever it is on the left side with the big plug going into it on the firewall left side, bad? Would this account for the no gauges and no odometer/trans range etc? Seems like they are unrelated, but I could be wrong. Anyone have these same types of things?

bigj-dog · 02-19-2010, 10:18 PM

Yeah, that's the pcm. It looks like it's year specific. All of the things you have that don't work would be going through the pcm. surprising that it runs decent with it out, as usually it'll lose spark or fuel when they die. Might be worth a try to swap it out.

82Stang · 02-19-2010, 10:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigj-dog

Yeah, that's the pcm. It looks like it's year specific. All of the things you have that don't work would be going through the pcm. surprising that it runs decent with it out, as usually it'll lose spark or fuel when they die. Might be worth a try to swap it out.

I'm willing to try swapping a part or two if it can help. The part that kills me, no pun intended, is that I have to keep trying parts here and there. I know what is and isn't working, but it seems to be eluding me at this point as to what is the cause. I'll try a PCM, but will that take care of the no gauge issue/no odometer/trans range, which is what I am concerned with mainly? We shall see.

bigj-dog · 02-20-2010, 08:07 AM

Yeah, that's the bitch. At least you have multiple things not working, so it leads a person to believe that it's either the ignition switch or the pcm, once you've eliminated the instrument cluster. It seems for my money, it's better to waste a little extra money with the swaps, then hours and hours (sometimes anyway) chasing ghosts.

82Stang · 02-20-2010, 10:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigj-dog

Yeah, that's the bitch. At least you have multiple things not working, so it leads a person to believe that it's either the ignition switch or the pcm, once you've eliminated the instrument cluster. It seems for my money, it's better to waste a little extra money with the swaps, then hours and hours (sometimes anyway) chasing ghosts.

You struck my interest up above when you mentioned the ignition switch also. I'm going to try the pcm first, but may also rip out another ignition switch. Only reason I am thinking this is because the key goes in, but doesn't always turn the ignition. It has to be played with a little at times and turn the wheel slightly etc etc to get it to turn on. Not always, just sometimes. Whether that symptom is indicative of a bad ignition switch, could be, but worth a shot checking also. Thanks.

82Stang · 02-22-2010, 08:27 AM

What I've done so far:

- swapped another instrument cluster, no change, lights, but no gauges
- plug/unplug PCM/ECM and Body control module, no change
- swapped in another PCM/ECM on left front fender, no change
- fixed broken ground from Alt bracket to firewall/A/C lines on firewall
- swapped in another ignition switch, no change

There can not be much left, save for another BCM or wiring check. One thing I can mention is that when I turn the key on, at night, I can faintly see the odometer and trans range displays have some dim lighting as if to say some power was going to it. But there is no definition as to mileage or shifter, it's just a dim faint little light across the small boards of each. It's faintly illuminated as if to say that some power is getting to those boards.

Maybe try another BCM or check the wiring real good.

82Stang · 02-22-2010, 01:56 PM

One more thing to add. As I said above, there is a code P1698 for manufacturer controlled trans and auxilary output. I erase it, but it comes right back.

I'm going to try unplugging the TCM and put key on to see if gauges come online or not. Then maybe open it up and see if anything looks fishy. I also read you can check power to the CCD by the 3rd terminal from the left in both rows on the diagnostic connector under the dash.

Spit · 02-22-2010, 07:27 PM

Guys I show P01698 as being a "no communication between the Transmission and the Transmission Control Module (TCM). Are you having and problems with the van shifting? Stuck in Limp mode?

My van is in a transmission shop right now and the techs can't figure it out. It has a P01698 code and won't shift past 2nd gear.

I read something about a Relay in the main electical box under the hood a EATX relay? According to the post there are other relays in the box that are the same..like the horn relay which you can switch and see if it works? I just sent that info to the shop and I'm hoping they can fix it without a major rebuld.

Spit

82Stang · 02-22-2010, 09:11 PM

Spit, I tried the switch of relays and no difference, for me anyway. The van did have a little difficulty shifting, but nothing major. It runs well. Except when in park, I try revving it up and it bogs down and exhaust is alot. But if I go slow with the accelerator, it revs up fine. Not sure what that is.

I got some info about testing the BCM for continuity through the diagnostic port under the driver side dash with the 3rd junction from left on each row. I did that with my multimeter set on 2000)))) and got a tone, which means an open or short circuit and it was reading about .4 to .9 fluctuating back and forth with KOEO. What does this mean, if anything? I'm not too schooled yet on the multimeter.

Aftr looking at the BCM on my kitchen table, it looked good I guess. Everything is covered in this amber jello crap so you really can't tend to anything if it was bad. But it looked as good as I would expect.

Since I have the P1698, could it be a bad TCM? I already changed out the ECM/PCM and nothing different. Where is the TCM? I even read about a VSS. I'm up for anything that could help at this point. It's getting a little bit long in the tooth now.

Spit · 02-22-2010, 09:38 PM

82 stang

The TCM is on the driver's side fender. The PCM is on the Passenger side.

There a number of posts on this site dealing with bad solder connections on the dashboard/instrument cluster. that can cause the gauge problems you are citing.

The P01698 is telling you that the electrical signal from the trans is not getting to the TCM.
I would look at all the electical connections that I could. A lot of the people talking about the 1698 were saying that they had problems with the trans shifting...so if you aren't having trans problems maybe this isn't a real problem for you.

I have seen a couple of things posted on this subject...someone said bad or dirty connections at the Power Control Module..PCM (main fuse box under the hood) Some one said that dirty/coroded connections on the bottom of the PCM can be a problem.

Chaffed wires at the front of the transmission. Look for a harness that goes to the solenoid pack on ther front of the trans.

I would be sure to disconnet the battery...and then disconnect the wires at the TCM solenoid etc. & check them for corrosion etc. you should be able to spray them with terminal cleaner. and re-seat them firmly.

Spit

82Stang · 02-22-2010, 10:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spit

82 stang

The TCM is on the driver's side fender. The PCM is on the Passenger side.

There a number of posts on this site dealing with bad solder connections on the dashboard/instrument cluster. that can cause the gauge problems you are citing.

The P01698 is telling you that the electrical signal from the trans is not getting to the TCM.
I would look at all the electical connections that I could. A lot of the people talking about the 1698 were saying that they had problems with the trans shifting...so if you aren't having trans problems maybe this isn't a real problem for you.

I have seen a couple of things posted on this subject...someone said bad or dirty connections at the Power Control Module..PCM (main fuse box under the hood) Some one said that dirty/coroded connections on the bottom of the PCM can be a problem.

Chaffed wires at the front of the transmission. Look for a harness that goes to the solenoid pack on ther front of the trans.

I would be sure to disconnet the battery...and then disconnect the wires at the TCM solenoid etc. & check them for corrosion etc. you should be able to spray them with terminal cleaner. and re-seat them firmly.

Spit

What I know is the PCM/ECM is on the left front fender wall. The BCM is on the right front fender wall. Is this wrong? Is the TCM part of the ECM?

I've read about the solder connections, but don't see anything obvious on the cluster. I could be wrong, but not so sure. I could just try and resolder the points anyway, but not sure that will make a difference.

The code for 1698 does pertain to shifting and I did have a little bit of issue with the van shifting erratically in 2nd gear, but it really doesn't affect the drive at all. It runs great. Whatever the shift issue, it is slight at best.

I checked the connections on the bottom of the PCM and no such luck there.

Chaffed wires however, I haven't mingled with the front of the tranny. Maybe I should. This might be something to check around. If the TCM is around the front of the tranny, I'll try that cleaning etc. Correct me if I'm wrong, is the ECM/PCM part of the TCM? They aren't the same box, right? I'm having trouble identifying things here.

The original problem was intermittent and happened when going over bumps. This leads me to believe it must be a connection or something thereabout. Hopefully it is just a TCM plug. That would be easy.

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