Turn the key and nothing

[zukdj]

I have a 2002 Town & Country Limited, last night I parked it and had no problems at all, this morning I went out to start it and there was nothing. The battery is fully charged per a battery test, all the idiot lights come on as usual when I turn it over however the starter doesn't turn over. I turned the headlights on to see if there was any draw when I turn the key and there is absolutely no draw so the power isn't making it to the starter. I cleaned the posts on the battery, removed the positive terminal to reset the system. Still nothing, I turn the key and there is no draw at all. This was a very sudden thing, any ideas as to what else I can check? Very frustrating problem and I don't want to be at the dealers mercy not to mention I would need to get it towed.

Drop me a line if you have any suggestions dzukowsk@nycap.rr.com

[KManiac]

Could be the neutral safety switch. Try putting the transmission selector in Neutral (N) and turn the key to start. If that doesn't work, hold the ignition key in the start position while moving the transmission selector through all the gears and see what happens.

Note: If your van is equipped with a STARGARD antitheft device, whether you have a removable key or not, this could be the culprit, as well.

Let us know what you find and what you do.

[RIP]

Another thing to try is find the starter relay in the fuse panel next to the battery. Turn the key and tap on the relay. Still nothing? Swap the relay with another nearby identical relay. Still nothing? Check for power at the relay with a test light or meter. Should see constant 12vdc on one contact and 12vdc coming and going on another as you turn the key. This will verify power to the contact for the relay coil and through the ign switch then the neutral park switch to the relay switch contacts. One of these should be missing. If you see both, reverify you have a good battery. A load test is the true test. Worst case scenerio? The PCM is not supplying the ground to the relay coil.

[zukdj]

Being it is the Limited it has the anti-theft device, how do I reset that to see if that is the culprit? Thinking back the only thing I did different that I've never done before is as follows, before I went home I ran into the gocery store and left my car running, I locked the doors with mt remote while it was running. Now I notice when I try to start the car the "red dot" on the dash for the anti-thft stays lit constantly while the key is in the on position, I'm not sure it did that before, I thought it blinked and went off. Could the anti-theft be my problem? Is there a way to reset it?

[zukdj]

I don't know that the security system is StarGuard, my van has the chip in the ignition key and the van came equipt with a security system from the factory. I tried different keys but no luck.

Added info, the battery tested fine under load, I just plugged it into the computer to check it, no problems, no codes. I tried unlocking the doors with the key too, nothing is resetting the theft system. More and more I'm leaning toward being locked out by the theft system but I have no way of knowing how to reset it. FYI, it's a 2002 Chrysler T&C Limited.

[KManiac]

The STARGARD system I mentioned is an after-market device that some dealers installed in all vehicles prior to sale, then tried to make you pay for it when you bought the car. If you chose not to buy the device, they merely broke the key off in the receptical and left the device in the car. I just mentioned it because my father's Ram 1500 has one in it that he didn't buy from the dealer. Every once in a while we have to pull the wiring harness from the receptical to engage the starter. Do you see any after-market style LED lights blinking under the dashboard??

The factory anti-theft system is easy to reset. Insert the ignition key in the outside driver door lock, lock the door with the key, then unlock the door with the key. Try that and see what happens.

Did you try holding the ignition key in the start position and running the selector through the gears? What happened??

RIP's suggestion about the relay should be checked next. What were your results here??

Please keep us posted on your results.

[zukdj]

I ran through the gears with the key turned, nothing. It is the factory anti-theft however unlocking and locking the door did nothing, next step is the relays. I'm very frustrated, I was told if it was the anti-theft it would start briefly and stall. It doesn't do anything and it is clear the starter isn't drawing any current. This started suddenly which realy perplexes me.

[KManiac]

Here is another trouble shooting step to try. Turn the ignition to the "On" position, pull the transmission selector into Reverse (R), then check to see if the reverse lights are on, on the rear of the vehicle. If they are on, I would suspect the starter relay. If not, AND the two bulbs are good, I would suspect a bad neutral safety/reverse light switch in the transmission, or a loose connector at the transmission. The two switches are integral to a single device.

Try that and let us know what happens.

[zukdj]

Just checked the relays, specifically the starter relay, it appears all are "clicking" but the one I really need, the starter relay, I even removed all the others to make sure I was hearing and feeling it correctly. Does the "Immobilizer Security System" disable all of this stuff? I really don't know what to do other than tow it to the dealer and I know they will soak me. I assume if the relay isn't working it would appear it is not a starter problem since the relay sends power to the starter, looking more toward the security system in my opinion, would you lean towards that as well? Are there fuses under the dash that could be an issue?

BTW, before you ask, yes, I swapped the relays around with no success. In addition I locked the doors and watched the security system turn on "flashing red dot on the dash" so I am really perplexed.

[jpb53]

The starter relay only uses four of the contacts. #30 is to have power at all times supplied by fuse #9. #86 is from the ignitiob switch. #85 is the ground supplied by the pcm. #87 is the output to the starter. You can jump 30 to 87 and see if it will crank. Ck 85 for a ground and 86 for power with key turned to start position.The missing signal will tell you what direction you have to go for further diagnosis.

[zukdj]

Are they numbered clearly, I see you referenced numbers but I don't want to cause any problems.

[zukdj]

Here goes, #30 to #87 cranks the engine over, no power at #86 (used a test light connected to negative battery cable, ignition switch on), no ground at #85 (used a test light connected to positive battery cable, ignition switch on). So, not to be completely ignorant but what does this mean? At least now I know the starter is OK. Of course if this means the PCM is toasted is it common to happen so quickly? I drove it home and parked it, tried to start it in the morning and nothing. Any suggestions on where to get another completely programmed PCM for this vehicle IF this is my problem?

Just got off the phone with a reputable rebuilder of PCM's, he said the PCM definitely isn't the issue, the car would turn over even if the PCM wasn't connected. So, anymore suggestions for a frustrated Chrysler owner?

[zukdj]

Just tested the security system, locked the doors with the window down then waited until the "red dot indicator" light stopped blinking to ensure it was armed (16 seconds). I reached through the window and opened the door from the inside, the alarm went off. I put the key in and turned it to the on position but it wouldn't disable the alarm, I had to use the remote to disable it by locking and unlocking the doors with the remote.

BTW, also put it in reverse with the key on, the backup lights work as they should.

[zukdj]

Originally Posted by zukdj

Here goes, #30 to #87 cranks the engine over, no power at #86 (used a test light connected to negative battery cable, ignition switch on), no ground at #85 (used a test light connected to positive battery cable, ignition switch on). So, not to be completely ignorant but what does this mean? At least now I know the starter is OK. Of course if this means the PCM is toasted is it common to happen so quickly? I drove it home and parked it, tried to start it in the morning and nothing. Any suggestions on where to get another completely programmed PCM for this vehicle IF this is my problem?

Just got off the phone with a reputable rebuilder of PCM's, he said the PCM definitely isn't the issue, the car would turn over even if the PCM wasn't connected. So, anymore suggestions for a frustrated Chrysler owner?

Looks like I made a mistake in my prior response, #86 lights the light when I turn the ignition ket to start, I just tested it in the on position prior, my mistake. There is still no ground at #85, I suspect this is the culprit. Where do I go from here?

[KManiac]

I still think it is the neutral safety switch. I just don't know which connector to the transmission needs to be removed and jumpered to test this theory. Anyone else out there with the knowledge would need to jump in. This is the best I can do to help.