Muscle Cars - Chevy vs Ford

[MrPbody]

Yes, solid lifters. We put pushrods in it too many times... If revved to 5,600 in the lower gears, it was fine. Over 6,000, and it would bend a bunch of the pushrods. In 4th gear, it would go right near 7,000 without a wimper. I suspect it was catching revs too quickly for the stock valve train in the lower gears. Definitely a 3.50 gear, as well. 3310 Holley, if memory serves me.

I have a '69 Torino 428CJ in here right now. The car is white with red "c" stripes, and red interior. It's quite nice! Girl's car, though (auto trans).

I have seen at least three or four '70 Mach 1s with 429s in them. They may have been transplants, I guess. MUCH stronger than the 428 cars. I drove a '71 "flat back" Mach 1 with 429 CJ. It was a GOOD running car, despite the lower compression. My favorite Mustang was always the flat back. My brother (a DIE HARD Mustang guy) hates them. He says they're just to damn big. That's what I LIKE about them... They're the most aero Mustang produced, too.

When I was first getting into my own cars, I was a "Ford guy". Then, I bought The Judge. You're right! SWEET RIDE!!! Never looked back. GTO was by far, the best balanced muscle car. If you could beat it in a straight line, it would stomp you in the twisties. If you could out-handle it, you were toast in a drag race. In SoCal, there's lots of good places to road race and drag race. We had "courses" marked all over the San Bernardino area. Hwy 18 to Big Bear is an AWESOME "GTO road", at least UP HILL. Down hill? Not suicidal...

Jim

[Chad82]

Originally Posted by MrPbody

Talk about a loaded question!!!

THE "modern muscle car" (only one made since 1972) is the '04-'06 GTO. Mustang never was nor will ever be a "muscle car". It's a "pony car" (a class named FOR Mustang), and regardless of how much "muscle" it has, it will always BE a pony car.

Not arguing, but why do you only consider the 04-06 GTO to be modern muscle? The grand national seems to fit just about as well (mid-sized, great performance in higher trim than base models). Is it just the displacement that would disqualify the GN/GNX? Were they too expensive or something?

[MrPbody]

Chad,

Nope. They weren't too expensive. They were shy a couple cylinders. Muscle cars had BIG V8s (relatively speaking, of course). Only the "Buick crowd" considers them muscle. Fast isn't in question. They have very little low-end torque, a prime ingredient for the actual driving (not racing) of a muscle car. They also have a power adder. The latter is instant disqualification in my book... ANYONE can put a blower on something and make it fast. No brainer...

Lastly, they're so seldom seen (I see more '69 Camaros and '65 GTOs on the road than I do ALL Buick preformance cars combined), they're hard to include in any general "list".

That doesn't mean I don't like them. I do. I've built several turbo engines, too. Lots of little things to make them "live" when they are making big power. Not unlike the big Buick V8s.

Jim

[Chad82]

Fair enough. I would agree that low end torque would be a necessary requirement for a "true" muscle car. Re: cylinders, I always thought the power was more important than the engine configuration and figured to define a modern muscle you had to take technological advances into consideration. Because of that I didn't mind power adders for a modern muscle. If the new GTO comes with a SC LS2, it wouldn't disqualify it in my books.

[MrPbody]

Chad,

I understand. But, since GTO can stand on its own feet without an adder, it's a "moot point"! Now, what WOULD happen with say, 12 lbs. of boost? WOW!!!

Jim

[M3FordBoy]

I voted Ford...my opinion my be bias.
I plan on bore/stroking my Fe when I get out of school
Hopefully around 480cid at least 700hp
Get this 4500-ish lb beast in the 10's.

[MrPbody]

M3FordBoy,

You might wanna reconsider the "FE" thing. While a very good engine in its own rite, it's woefully obsolete. It's also very difficult to get to the CID you want. 427 blocks are VERY rare and VERY expensive. Unless there's an aftermarket block out there (I haven't seen one, so if there is, please point it out!), you're gonna be stuck with using a 390 or 428 as a basis. The bore simply can't go far enough to make such cubes.

A "Lima" engine (429/460) would be a far better choice, IMO. Tons of good parts, no lak of power from it, either (more than any FE without overhead cams I've ever seen).

FWIW

Jim

[M3FordBoy]

^I have consider this, but I'd like to stick with the Fe purely for nastalgic purposes....It'll cost a little more, and be harder to find performance parts, but it's not imposible. I remember reading a while back that scat was going to or is currently make a stroker kit to get some big cid number out of the Fe's...so that's what I'll be looking for. It might not be 480ci, but at lest 466ci or something like that.

[429SCJguy]

A 428 crankshaft in a 427 block will get you to near 454 cubic inches, but as Jim said 427 blocks are not cheap. There may be aftermarket kits available.

What do you plan about cylinder heads? There are the garden variety FE heads, 2.03 1.56, valves, 428CJ (C8OE-N) and low riser 427 heads, 2.08 1.66 valves. The medium riser (C5AE-F, filled intake runners) and high riser (C4AE-F, tall intake ports) heads have larger valves. Then there are the aluminum Edelbrocks.

As Jim said, a lot of relatively cheap power and torque is available with the 429/460. Besides the aftermarket aluminum cylinder head offerings, the common iron cylinder head castings are D3VE-A2A, DOVE-C and DOOE-R (429CJ/SCJ). The D2VE-A2A heads are open chamber.

[M3FordBoy]

Look I'm not going to be attempting this anytime soon, probably 4 years down the road, a lot can happen between now and then. As for heads I currently have the Preformer RPM with 2.09/1.66 vavles. I may possibley use a reworked version of those: stronger springs, port/polish, maybe even some different valves.

[VR43000GT]

Originally Posted by Andydg

Well Mopar made the best muscle cars IMO But I prefer the Chevy muscle cars myself over the Fords. I think they look better and they're much easier to work on.

Yeah, I know, old thread. Oh well, I am still throwing in my .02. You took the words right out of my mouth. If it comes to American muscle there is nothing I would rather have than an old Mopar. And if it is between Chevy and Ford, probably Chevy. However, I have recently been looking between the LS1 F-body and a 2001 Cobra and I would have to choose the 01 Cobra for the fact that in a straight line they are pretty much identical but the Cobra has IRS. I need a car that can handle decient. An 01 Cobra may be my next car.

[Combatspace]

Between the two...I believe that Ford made a better muscle car. That may just be three generations of Ford gear-heads talking, but the Mustang, (the accidental muscle car) the Torino, and the Cougars (if we include mercury in the Ford mix) were just...more taken to.

FORD FTW!!!

[MuscleBuick]

well i'm pretty rell rounded when it comes to ford vs. chevy but when i 1st got into the hobby i was ford guy so there's always gonna be that part of me that's blue oval but i think they're pretty equal with ford having a tiny edge.
there's some ford's i'd want over chevy's and some chevy's i'd want over fords.
boss 429,351,and 302 over z28
z28 over gt350 and C/S

[NOVA71]

Imo - Gm

[Malibu67]

I think that the Chevy Chevelle with the 396 and 454 porcipine (sp) heads are hard to beat. Lots of power in a small block!!