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View Poll Results: Which Engine is the better for Forced Induction??
D15 5 4.39%
B16A 13 11.40%
D17A 0 0%
B18B 45 39.47%
B18C1 27 23.68%
B18C5 12 10.53%
H22A 12 10.53%
Voters: 114. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 08-12-2003, 09:52 AM   #1
afroeman
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Which Engine for Forced Induction??

I've been having a debate with my sister and my friends about the best motor for forced induction. We have all agreed that the B18's are the best motors. But I personally think that the B18C5 is the better motor simply because it was a stronger built motor. The other option is the B18C1 (GSR), my sister says that the B18C1 is the better engine because it is a more tunable engine then the already high hp'd Type-R. I would like to get another opinion, and this opinion will be the one I will stand by, so that my conscience will be cleared. Thank you ahead of time.

P.S. I will list all the four cylinder Honda Engines besides the F20: So that if there is a different engine that is better I might know about it.
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Old 08-12-2003, 10:52 AM   #2
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What about crvtec or ls/vtec, you can turbo one of those and get tons of power, but you might want to resleeve the crvtec because its kind of weak.

But if I have to choose one of the engines you listed I would say B18C1 because the B18C5 is rare and high compression already, would have to rebuild it to make it withstand the turbo.
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Old 08-13-2003, 06:04 AM   #3
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The best engine to turbo is the B18B1 LS enigne. For as to why the LS (B18B1) is so good for turbo's. First, lets start with the tranny. The longer gear ratios of the LS tranny are prefactly suited for F/I (turbo) apps. The longer gear ratios help the turbo spool better, amount other things. In general, longer gear ratios are better for forece induction apps, shorter ratios for naturally aspirated apps. The type-r has the shortest gear ratios on the 3 mentioned, and the gsr is not much behind. These tranny would not be the best suited for turbos' better suited for N/A. especially the type-r, which in itself was designed to be and n/a engine. It has an 11:1 comperesion ratio, and the GSR about 10:1. Both of these are too high for turbo apps. Turbocharging reuires a low comperssion ratio, something these engines don't have. You'll have to do extensive work to make these engines turbo ready. The LS, mind you, has a 9.2:1 comperesion ratio (c/r). This is well suited for turbo apps. Furthermore, the LS has a very well built block. The LS can handle 12psi on stock internals, more than almost any other honda engine. Most can only handle around 8psi. Also, Vtec cams are not particularly well-suited for turbo apps. They are better suited towards n/a apps. The B18B1 LS engine is non-vtec, this is another reason it is better suited. To sum it up, the LS is a better turbo engine for turbocharging due to A) a low c/r of 9.2:1, )vs 10:1 and 11:1 for the other 2 engines) B) a tranny with longer gear ratios, a perfact set-up for turbo apps. (shorter gear ratio's like the gsr and type-r are better suited for n/a engines).C) non-vtec cams, better suited cams for turbocharging than Vtec cams D) the LS can handle 12 psi on stock internals, vs 8 psi for most other honda engines. Basically, it's comperssion ratio is turbo friendly, with a perfactly suited tranny and the ability to handle 12 psi on the stock internals. The LS with 12 psi/boost should put you in the 250hp range.
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Old 08-13-2003, 06:05 AM   #4
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Yeah, I have 97 gsr...I'm thinking that too, but i heard it was the LS because there is no vtec
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Old 08-13-2003, 06:07 AM   #5
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this is off topic but how do i pust a pic....here is the link:http://files.automotiveforums.com/up...651integra.jpg
but how do you post it so it appears the second you click
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Old 08-13-2003, 06:18 AM   #6
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Yeah, I have 97 gsr...I'm thinking that too, but i heard it was the LS because there is no vtec
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Old 08-13-2003, 05:19 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally posted by eckoman_pdx
The best engine to turbo is the B18B1 LS enigne. For as to why the LS (B18B1) is so good for turbo's. First, lets start with the tranny. The longer gear ratios of the LS tranny are prefactly suited for F/I (turbo) apps. The longer gear ratios help the turbo spool better, amount other things. In general, longer gear ratios are better for forece induction apps, shorter ratios for naturally aspirated apps. The type-r has the shortest gear ratios on the 3 mentioned, and the gsr is not much behind. These tranny would not be the best suited for turbos' better suited for N/A. especially the type-r, which in itself was designed to be and n/a engine. It has an 11:1 comperesion ratio, and the GSR about 10:1. Both of these are too high for turbo apps. Turbocharging reuires a low comperssion ratio, something these engines don't have. You'll have to do extensive work to make these engines turbo ready. The LS, mind you, has a 9.2:1 comperesion ratio (c/r). This is well suited for turbo apps. Furthermore, the LS has a very well built block. The LS can handle 12psi on stock internals, more than almost any other honda engine. Most can only handle around 8psi. Also, Vtec cams are not particularly well-suited for turbo apps. They are better suited towards n/a apps. The B18B1 LS engine is non-vtec, this is another reason it is better suited. To sum it up, the LS is a better turbo engine for turbocharging due to A) a low c/r of 9.2:1, )vs 10:1 and 11:1 for the other 2 engines) B) a tranny with longer gear ratios, a perfact set-up for turbo apps. (shorter gear ratio's like the gsr and type-r are better suited for n/a engines).C) non-vtec cams, better suited cams for turbocharging than Vtec cams D) the LS can handle 12 psi on stock internals, vs 8 psi for most other honda engines. Basically, it's comperssion ratio is turbo friendly, with a perfactly suited tranny and the ability to handle 12 psi on the stock internals. The LS with 12 psi/boost should put you in the 250hp range.
You're somewhat on the right track, but not really. LS gearing is not good for turbos, it's a common misconception. A car with a GSR tranny or an ITR tranny will blow the doors off of an LS car, highway or street given similar drivers. Saying a non-vtec motor is better suited to turbocharging is one of the dumbest things i've ever heard in the honda community period. Vtec heads flow better, can be ported to flow more than an LS head cam, and with the mild duration on stock vtec lobes they do great for turbos. Saying that the LS can handle 12 psi on stock internals and the B18C1/C5 can't is also untrue. A stock GSR motor on pump gas can easily take 12 psi, same goes for the ITR. A GSR motor with an inlinepro headgasket can run 20+ pounds of boost, with adequate fuel and a properly sized turbocharger. Also, 10:1 for a low boost turbo motor is a better choice than 9.2:1. You make more power out of boost and get quicker turbo spool with more compression. Running less compression on a low boost motor is just a band-aid fix for having a bad tuner.

LS with 12 psi = 250 HP maybe at the flywheel, but more likely around 210-220 at the wheels. A GSR with 12 psi will easily make over 300 WHP given a well sized turbo and a good tune.

Edit: And USDM ITR compression is 10.6:1, JDM ITR is 11.1.
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Old 08-13-2003, 08:26 PM   #8
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BOOSTED331 - We are talking about stock for stock. And that is a bunch of BS that a B18C1 with do 300 HP with 12 PSI. There is a lot of other mods you would have to do to get that.
12 PSI with pump gas on a B18C5? Are you nuts?
Non VTEC is better for turbo mostly because of the valve overlap a VTEC engine produces. At high RPM the turbo can't spool very well.
And longer gearing is better for turbos. Since you seem to know so much, why don't you name me a FACTORY turbo car that DOESN'T have long gearing? You can't, so are you saying you know more than the engineers that build these cars? Your post is full of BS.
8 PSI on a B18B1 with a 3'' catless exhaust system will do 250 crank HP. Up that to 12 PSI, and what do you get?
You are saying so much about tuning, to run 12 PSI on a B18C5 on pump gas is nuts. The car's ignition would have to be so retarded the thing wouldn't make much power anymore. And if you slacked off in your tuning WHATSOEVER so goodbye to the pistons in that thing. Maybe even crack a sleeve because of the tremendous pressure that would put on it.
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Old 08-13-2003, 08:29 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally posted by boosted331

A GSR motor with an inlinepro headgasket can run 20+ pounds of boost, with adequate fuel and a properly sized turbocharger.
WTF? After this statement I rest my case that you sir are a moron.
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Old 08-13-2003, 10:16 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally posted by PWMAN


WTF? After this statement I rest my case that you sir are a moron.
HAHA WTF is wrong with ppl? I mean really 300hp from 12psi on pump gas from a B18C5 or B18C1 , I think I can already hear the pinging
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Old 08-13-2003, 10:19 PM   #11
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And just FYI the H22A is the worst motor out of the ones listed in the poll. Even though ppl have voted for it, it is a problem matic motor when boosted on stock internals.
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Old 08-14-2003, 12:25 AM   #12
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BOOSTED331 - We are talking about stock for stock. And that is a bunch of BS that a B18C1 with do 300 HP with 12 PSI. There is a lot of other mods you would have to do to get that.

Engine management and your fuel system, turbo kit and a good tune and 300 WHP is borderline easy. 550CC injectors, 255 intank, hondata and a T3/T04E with a good manifold (read: not drag) @ 12 psi will easily eclipse 300 SAE WHP.

12 PSI with pump gas on a B18C5? Are you nuts?

Nope. You're not going to do it with an FMU on stock injectors, but with a hondata/AEM/fast/accel gen 7 it's totally possible

Non VTEC is better for turbo mostly because of the valve overlap a VTEC engine produces. At high RPM the turbo can't spool very well.

Dead wrong. Vtec head flows better and makes more power period. GSR Cams installed straight up have 17 degrees of overlap, which isn't very much. Stock cam in my old mustang was 202/202 @ .050 .448/.448 lift 114LSA straight up. New turbo cam custom ground for my turbo application by Murillo was 225/221 .537/.547 115 LSA installed 1 degree retarded. I guess you're right. It has more overlap than the stock cam. But hey, what does Mike know. He's only won SSO 6 times since 94 and been campaigning a turbo car since 2000.

And longer gearing is better for turbos. Since you seem to know so much, why don't you name me a FACTORY turbo car that DOESN'T have long gearing? You can't, so are you saying you know more than the engineers that build these cars? Your post is full of BS.

Gee, why don't we take a look here. Total multiplication for LS is 13.77, 8.11, 5.41, 4.12, 3.05, first to fifth, respectively. Total multiplication for an AWD 1G dsm is 15.2, 8.12, 5.50, 4.11, 3.28, first to fifth respectively. The AWD car with the quicker spooling turbo has a much steeper first gear to get you out of the hole quicker, which is what you need for a turbo. Lets look at third gen RX7 gear ratios, shall we? 14.28, 8.26, 5.7, 4.1, 2.95. First to 5th, respectively. Once again, a car with quicker spooling turbos has more multiplication to get it out of the hole. You have to remember that the average turbo honda doesn't have a quick spooling turbo that's all in by 3 grand, which is why the GSR tranny IS better for a street turbo honda. Also keep in mind that hondas do rev a lot higher than a talon typically does, it's not uncommon to have a 9000+ RPM street honda, which, yet again, is why you want to have closer gears.

8 PSI on a B18B1 with a 3'' catless exhaust system will do 250 crank HP. Up that to 12 PSI, and what do you get?
You are saying so much about tuning, to run 12 PSI on a B18C5 on pump gas is nuts. The car's ignition would have to be so retarded the thing wouldn't make much power anymore. And if you slacked off in your tuning WHATSOEVER so goodbye to the pistons in that thing. Maybe even crack a sleeve because of the tremendous pressure that would put on it.

No, not really. Hence the taking it to a good tuner and getting it tuned with a wideband on the dyno 12 PSI on a 10.6:1 motor really isn't that much, easily doable on a daily driven pump gas car, and it will still make a heap of power.
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Old 08-14-2003, 12:28 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally posted by PWMAN


WTF? After this statement I rest my case that you sir are a moron.
Yeah, damn, inline pro must be idiots for going 10.40's with a stock GSR block and one of their headgaskets www.inlinepro.com click on turbo street car.
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Old 08-14-2003, 03:05 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally posted by boosted331


Yeah, damn, inline pro must be idiots for going 10.40's with a stock GSR block and one of their headgaskets www.inlinepro.com click on turbo street car.
It might do it once or it moght do it twice but it will blow up in your face and create a mess of what used to be a good B18C1.
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Old 08-14-2003, 09:48 PM   #15
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Alright ppl......just to clarify something.....I AM NOT AN IDIOT.... I mean really, in most cases I know what I'm talking about. With that out of the way, I move to my next topic of discussion.....How much of an idiot Boosted331 thinks, not only me but everyone else replying to this thread, is. Ok, my SISTER knows that a Stock B18C5 will not run 12 psi on pump gas, Boosted331 is thereby considered an idiot. Secondly with a swapped head as the only other internal mod, there is not a chance in hell that the B18C1 GSR motor will get 300 Wheel HorsePower from 12 psi, Boosted331 is again considered, in my book, an idiot. The GSR from InlinePro used their headgasket, yes, but they also souped the living shit out of that B18C1, with some major mods done to almost every part of every part of the GSR internals, therefore I will still reside to say that Boosted331 is, well, an idiot. Ah also on the topic of InlinePro heads, There is also no way that the engine would reach 2000 rpm's without being tore all to hell running 20 POUNDS OF BOOST THROUGH A STOCK GSR BLOCK, ARE YOU INSANE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I must agree with pwman, you sir ARE, in fact, a MORON. Another thing, I know that a non-VTEC engine will handle more on the stock internals and that LS DOES have better gearing. To say that a GSR or ITR Stock Motor would respond better is an utter diss to the Honda God (Not Sure who that is, but there are a few folks that come to mind, and You sir are NOT one of them.) And now I will move forward to my final topic of discussion this evening and this pertains to your 4th defense of your stupidity, we are not concerning ourselves with any such company as, THE FORBIDDEN........D....S..........M!!!!!!!!!:banhim : (I'm sorry, but for example's sake I just had to say it.)nor are we talking about 3rd gen RX-7's, we ARE in the HONDA/ACURA forum and you, sir, have sinned against the Honda God for presenting a defense for the forbidden company, and must repent of your sinful nature. We're not talking about mazda, nor, well, you know, the other company.... anyways the other part of this defense is another reason why a NON-VTEC motor IS better for turbo, without V-TEC, and the longer gearing, that gives the turbo more time to spool plus you get a much longer boost then you would with a GSR or ITR tranny. Instead of comparing LS, D...S.........you know the last letter, and an RX-7, try comparing a Type-R, a GSR, and then an LS, I, then must concur with my previous statements and the opinion of pwman, and I am hereby resting my case that you sir ARE, as a proven fact, A MORON.
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