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Old 06-11-2001, 04:04 PM   #31
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I haven't see the Koenigsegg CC in a while and I love it still! 654hp from that Devilish beast. It could easily mulch a Ferrari
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Any car built by "Dr. Technology" is probably not worth $5000
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Old 06-11-2001, 04:42 PM   #32
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sure, sure, its easy to talk about the EXPERIENCE, as though its something that more than 2% of people on AF can actually talk about firsthand, but on the extreme end of the supercar genre (more extreme than a 550 Maranello, the F series Ferraris being the only ferraris judged this way) upon which we are currently bantering, its not so much getting the most mind-blowing experience as much as it is being able to differentiate, because they're all excellent. Experience is a fair argument if you are slightly past the 6 figure income point and are trying to convince yourself that a Ferrari 360 Modena or 550 Maranello are better buys than a Viper (They are the right purchase because they're better cars, and the comparison is a great example of how the numbers don't tell the whole story). However, If you've driven an archaic but charming early '80s car like myself, anything is going to be amazing, and being able to judge whether to buy a koenigsegg CC whose numbers are only marginally better than a Mosler mt900 is not really an experience judgement call b/c you need a stopwatch or g-measuring accelerometer to tell if they were different at all. Consider a lexus ls430.. 0-60 in 6.4... audi S4... 0-60 (automatic) in 6.5... do you really think there is much cross shopping between the two? (or how about a Mustang GT vs a Jaguar xk8? or how about a S600 and an M3?) THAT is where the experience is a clear judgement call. But when talking about whether a koenigsegg CC is sweeter than a Mosler or Saleen, its about the deal offered and who has the bragging rights. Hence, the human eye, hands, and ass are not as good judges than casio or seiko timing equipment. You dig? Thats why the numbers matter in this field (remember, the one so extreme that it only includes the anniversary-level ferraris), and why it doesn't really reduce the rush "conveyed" by these "conveyances."

you dig?
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Old 06-11-2001, 05:03 PM   #33
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one more thing: if you ever happen to read a copy of Top Gear Magazine, read anything of special consideration written by Jeremy Clarkson. He's a lucky bastard who had the opportunity to test 7 200+ mph sueprcars, and said some nasty things about the McLaren F1 and Bugatti EB110 and Lamborghini Diablo, while complimenting the Ferrari F40 and Ford Gt40. As a result of his work that I've read since that story, I regard him as the guy to look to for the true enthusiast's view when making judgements about "experience." It should be noted, that while he proclaimed the F40 the best car of that test, he said that he still wouldn't take it over his Ferrari F355. He also wouldn't take a new 360 Modena because he thinks its less fun and less Ferrari than his F355. Now that is a man who sticks to his principles in the face of the newest thing. Oh, don't read his column regularly though (as well as anything he might write about american cars in general), he'll just piss you off. He's the British Brock Yates.

how many of you guys have been to my website? jk, there's not much there right now. Soon tho...
later
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Old 06-11-2001, 05:08 PM   #34
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doh, still forgetting this is the f60 column. The f60 will likely be tested by european mags way before US mags, so look there first. I'm rooting for the f60, but after having seen that the new car, while showing some f40 influence, is still more f50 than 360 modena, so I seriously doubt anyone will have shocking impressions of the car when it arrives.I'm afraid the impression is going to be, "whoopdie-do.. yeah, that kinda like what the f50 would have been like if they'd waited another model cycle to build it" rather than "my god, what are they putting in the water in Modena these days? Maybe our workers should strike more often. Think of what the vette could be!"

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Old 06-15-2001, 09:39 AM   #35
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When I say experience, I mean the harmony between speed, handling, sound, how all the senses are delighted. When you spend a whole bunch, it goes to the little (expensive) things.
The F60 will be awesome.

Oh, the GM EV1 has a .19 Cd. The new PNGV cars, the GM Precept has a .16 Cd. But thats just a concept.

I agree the Mosler is awesome, a real deal. It has 20 inch wheels, 14 inch Brembo brakes, and a reliable engine. It could use a better interior- too much corvette stuff in it. The S7 is over-wrought. Konissegg CC looks fine, but uses a reletively lowly Ford V8.

Yes, I agree numbers matter. I just realize when certain factors come together, it makes driving that much better.

PS. the F60 will only go 200mph and a bit, for high speed stability.
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Old 10-07-2001, 08:21 PM   #36
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Re: Holy shit!!!

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What involved responses. Well, I too read about the Mosler MT900, and I agree that its numbers are fantastic. Warren Mosler is a body designer without equal (just imagine if he'd been able to make the MT900 with the Raptor split-window windshield that Trenne simply refused to allow the MT900 to be produced with - perhaps the numbers would be even more staggering). Seems to have absolutely no short-comings... but I am just not stirred by its design the in the same way the S7 makes me feel. But I agree with your commentary 100%
This is an old thread, but I felt I had to comment....

Aerodynamically, keeping the rounded windshield was probibly the best thing Trenne could have done. At subsonic speeds, airflow stays laminar over smooth rounded, higher order curves, otherwise known as conics, and the MT900's exterior is all conic surfaces. Sharp knife like leading edges are only an aerodynamic advantage at supersonic speeds, which very few cars will ever see.
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Old 10-09-2001, 01:16 PM   #37
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Im not sure which side to go with, but I will side with mosler. I do this because I believe he is right, but where he sees engineering beauty, we see an upside down row boat.
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Old 10-13-2001, 02:32 PM   #38
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Quote:
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Konissegg CC looks fine, but uses a reletively lowly Ford V8.
Can't argue with you too much (I haven't seen a production class engine from Ford that compares with the LS1, LS6, etc.), Chris, but Koenigsegg is developing a flat 12 engine for the CC. I don't know how long it will take to complete the project, but Koenigsegg seems to work at a pretty brisk pace, so maybe we'll be seeing those before too long.
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Old 10-13-2001, 07:37 PM   #39
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I heard that also. That would make it worthy. Look in (I think) C&D November for an article on it. They like it quite a bit, but they dont think it will surpass the McLaren f1.

I would like to see a back-to-back comparison of the Ferrari F60, Konigseeg CC, McLaren F1, and Bugatti 16/4 Veyron. That would be interesting.
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Old 10-15-2001, 12:19 AM   #40
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Lightbulb Nice!!!

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Originally posted by Chris
I would like to see a back-to-back comparison of the Ferrari F60, Konigseeg CC, McLaren F1, and Bugatti 16/4 Veyron. That would be interesting.
That would be sweet. Though I don't know if they could pull it off, getting all those supercars for a single showdown. And I don't know if they'd want to do it, as any car that was shown up might suffer in sales.. I don't know, maybe that's off-base. Oh, and in my book you can't call this a party without a Pagani Zhonda C12 and a Saleen S7 in the line-up.
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Old 10-15-2001, 12:13 PM   #41
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How about a Mosler MT900 with a Lingenfelter 427 Twin Turbo, that would be pressing 250 grand, and it is super-performance.

I also doubt they will get all of those cars, but I hope someone can get a few of them together!
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Old 10-19-2001, 09:06 PM   #42
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How about a Mosler MT900 with a Lingenfelter 427 Twin Turbo, that would be pressing 250 grand, and it is super-performance.

I also doubt they will get all of those cars, but I hope someone can get a few of them together!

All it takes is a big checkbook, and Mosler will toss in a twin turbo for ya.

C&D did try to get alot of the supercars, and tuners together, but thats really putting your reputation on the line, and a business risk because you never know what could go wrong, and ruin your image.
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Old 10-19-2001, 09:07 PM   #43
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Im not sure which side to go with, but I will side with mosler. I do this because I believe he is right, but where he sees engineering beauty, we see an upside down row boat.

If it was engineering beauty...I have yet to talk to an werodynamics engineer that thinks its a good idea. Thats probibly why you don't see any other cars following suit.
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Old 10-20-2001, 07:37 PM   #44
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Usually Mosler and Lingenfelter are eager to give out their products for competition, because they know that they are reliable and they can win! Like the recent C&D story, Mosler didnt show up because he couldnt secure a car (it would have been a customers car).

And about those aerodynamics: Since I cant be sure, I will have to say that odd things sometimes work. Like the flat tail of the Shelby Cobra Daytona's. They worked brilliantly
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Old 10-20-2001, 09:06 PM   #45
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The MT900 didn't show due to metal shavings being found in the oil filter. But you're right, Warren will put his cars up against anything.
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