How about this

[Jay!]

You kids play nice.

Read an older AF argument about downforce vs. drag here.

[Thunda Downunda]

Look, I'm sorry too Darkstar if i came across with 'this attitude'. You're obviously proud of your machine, which is great, and it looks well-loved.

My attitude was triggerd by this Gang$tar who blandly directed me to "do some research" on a theme which is patently absurd, to whit: That spoilers cut down on body roll.

There's such a thing as The Law of Physics, and no matter how much he, you or even the guy from Pep Parts (or wherever) who sold you the plastic part wish to transcend these fundaments, it ain't gonna happen.

I included your collective quotes to highlight your ridiculous position, in the hope that you might think again. Here are some new ones for you to ponder:
"The fact that I lack the knowledge..."
"I just get mad when people come questioning my knowledge..."

As for Gan$tar, here's a public challenge from a mere newbie: Don't be lazy. Do some research. Show us your expertise and cite some proof that Darkstar's spoiler reduces body roll. I bet you can't.

btw, if a spoiler doesn't create drag, then it won't provide downforce. The energy HAS to come from somewhere..

[gang$tarr]

WTF?! i didn't mean that as an insult or anythin man! you're way to uptight..... all i said/meant was that I know it does but I'm not positive why.... i didn't want to research it myself cause i didn't really care at the time, so i just suggested that you go research it and you'll find out

i don't see how insulting that is?

[Thunda Downunda]

"I know it does"

Stop attempting to change the subject (though it amuses me to see you wriggle and squirm). Prove it. I bet you can't.

If you believe that an aftermarket spoiler can reduce body roll I guess you think your (probably imaginary) BMW can fly ...

This must be your car:

[Darkwing]

Alright, fine! I'm tired of this, I am going to find the proof. I'm going to research, and I'll have it sometime this week.

And my name is DarkWING!

[gang$tarr]

Originally posted by Thunda Downunda
"I know it does"

Stop attempting to change the subject (though it amuses me to see you wriggle and squirm). Prove it. I bet you can't.

If you believe that an aftermarket spoiler can reduce body roll I guess you think your (probably imaginary) BMW can fly ...

This must be your car:

change the subject? how was i changing the subject? I was sayin you gotta chill the fuck out cause i didn't mean anythin by sayin to do some research, since i don't know why it does but i know it does.

imaginary bmw? my parents bought me the car for my 16th birthday, you retard...

MOD?! could you please close this thread, i think this is goin nowhere.... and get thunda downunda outta here, all he's doin is starting shit

[hermunn123]

it sounds like he's talking to darkwing when he said you think an aftermarket spoiler reduces body roll but that BMW talk is just confusing. anyways if you're so sure of everything why dont you get proof

[Jay!]

Originally posted by gang$tarr
MOD?! could you please close this thread, i think this is goin nowhere.... and get thunda downunda outta here, all he's doin is starting shit

I think you sorta brought it on yourself. People are going to think you're full of BS until you start quoting actual references. Sorry, but that's how it is on the 'net.

But I am also confused as to whom Thunda Downunda is addressing with his challenges.

[Thunda Downunda]

Thank you, Moderator, for allowing me my final say...

Firstly, An apology is due from me to DarkWING.
I got your name confused with the miscreant. It was unintentional, and I regret both the accidental slur to your fine name and the confusion caused. I'm sorry.
You own an attractive little car, beautifully detailed and kept, and to your eternal credit you state in your last post that you're going to find proof of your claim. Although I'm sure you're mistaken, I do respect you for that.

As for the miscreant Gang$tir, who's kwality posts include:
"Im not positive why ... but it does"
"yeah thats what i'm sayin newbie"
Just because some people still believe the world is flat (e.g. the flat earth society, UK) and not round doesn't make it so. Similarly, you can claim and wish and hope until the cows come home, but until you prove your fatuous assertion that spoilers like Darkwing's reduce body roll, your credibility remains ZERO.
At least he (Darkwing) has the courage of his convictions, and shows his intelligence by endeavouring to prove it.

I have courteously requested that you Gang$tir back up your theory... I have asked, challenged, dared, even 'bet' you to. Your 'intelligence', on the other hand, is typified by responses of the following calibre:
"you gotta chill the f*** out"
"all he's doin is startin sh**"
"you f***in retard" etc.

These indicate to me that my previous photos were indeed NOT of your bmw. I will finalise by correcting this...

These are:

[hermunn123]

hahaha....gang$tarr has a 328ci you moron. i dont know if that is supposed to make him cry or what but i dont think that's doing anything to help your argument.
http://www.fortunecity.com/silversto..._aero.htm#Wing

that describes what spoilers do. there is nothing about reducing body roll during corners. this guy knows a LOT about cars and i dont think he'd keep out something so important as another function of a spoiler. if thownda downunda or darkwing duck can dissprove me, lets see it.

[Jay!]

Damn these stupid free web hosts and their broken links!!!

It's not working, hermunn123; how'd you find it?

[Thunda Downunda]

Glad you got a laugh Hermunn :licker:
No, the the gang$ter only THINKS that it's a 328. This (really a Pontiac in a party-dress) could well be his ride...

Thanx for the link, but hell, I don't think they reduce body roll either. Why should I disprove you?

[hermunn123]

my bad...probably just bad copy and pasting. try this...

http://www.fortunecity.com/silversto..._aero.htm#Drag and Lift ....it worked for me

[hermunn123]

well thunda downunda it seems like that you agree with darkwing duck that spoilers do reduce body roll. i dont understand why you are saying crap to gang$tarr about proving that spoilers dont reduce body roll when you dont think they do yourself. when i feel the same way w/someone i agree w/them, not yell at them

[Jay!]

Look, regardless of anything else a wing does, it adds weight. Specifically, it adds weight to the rear of the car, and 99 times out of 100 it's also adding weight above the car's center of gravity. This may be beneficial in RWD cars to afford better contact with the road, but only it the power of the car and the benefit of the increased contact can overcome the drawback of the extra weight.

The fact that the extra weight is above the center of gravity will force anyone with a rudimentary grasp of physics to realize it will not reduce body roll. The only possible way it could is if the vertical portions of said wing were fashioned as tailfins on a plane. But unless they are controlled by the driver to point the same direction as the car is turning, they are just more dead weight. If they were fashioned as fins and each was pointed to its respective side of the car, they would cancel each other out. This entire paragraph fleshes out a moot point because no wings are meant to be tailfins.

Again, wings add weight. And, yes, they do create drag. This drag contributes to downforce on the rear of the car. This is beneficial to RWD cars. The benefits of this downforce does not overcome the drawbacks of the added drag unless the car is powerful enough to reach a speed where the downforce is actually neseccary. That's why you see wings on race cars.

Wings are on Civics because people like them. They are cosmetic.

Now, really, you guys! Cut it out. Thunda Downunda, if you look back, gang$tarr told Darkwing to go do some research. Your post just happened to fall in between. From there on out this looks a bit too much like a flame war. I think you guys got into a four-way argument without keeping track of who was on which side.

Play nice.