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Old 05-04-2004, 10:38 AM   #106
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Re: The evo8 or ls1 firebird trans am??

what does that mean exactly...
they don't put it down on the street....

so they're not quick street racing, or?
do you know if the driver's are new to awd, are they rich kids whose parents bought them the car?

www.evolutionm.net will tell you they're not overrated.

i'm not defending it just b/c i like it, but i'm defending it b/c it's the truth.
far easier to get one in the 11's than a wrx/sti.

find one with a driver that's experienced with his car and awd, and then see what happens...

or got to evom and say the same...

(side note, i'm not trying to come off as a dick, but i find it hard to comprehend that a car that is universally praised and easily modded to be overrated... so i'm asking out of curiousity, not out of a malicious intent... )
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Old 05-04-2004, 12:55 PM   #107
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Thumbs down Re: The evo8 or ls1 firebird trans am??

Not exactly sure what this big arguement is about, and I am at work with little time to spare. I just wanted to say that I ran against the EVO at the track here in Florida two times. The first time, he was scared to launch it hard, and ran a 13.8. We talked afterwards, and he wanted to go again. He took off extremely hard, got the jump on me of course, but I reeled him in fairly quickly in the stock Mach 1, and he ran a respectable 13.5 to my 13.08. The traction was great that day, I was cutting 1.9's on stock tires. So, in my honest opinion, I think a stock EVO 8 cannot run a low 13. Unless there is that factory freak!! lol.. Thanks for reading
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Old 05-04-2004, 01:22 PM   #108
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Re: The evo8 or ls1 firebird trans am??

well...
since you're talking about a guy that wasn't willing to launch hard...
if he's not dropping the clutch at 6k+, he's not launching hard, which is how you get stellar times in the 1/4 in an evo...
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Old 05-04-2004, 01:34 PM   #109
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He did not launch at more than probably 2-3 grand on the first try, but I suggested that he launch like the tuner guys suggest(6,000rpm's) on the second try. I understand that its tricky to launch an awd car, but he wasn't a beginner by all means.. Him and his brother shares the ownership of a 69 mach one that runs 11's. It may be possible to hit a 13.3-13.4, but it didn't beat me that day, which made my day after hearing that an evo would own me...
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Old 05-04-2004, 02:50 PM   #110
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Hmmm

Maybe I've run into guys behind the wheel of these machines who can't drive them, it's hard to believe though that everyone who drives one doesn't know how. The races I've seen around here the EVOs are always losing to Supras, 5.0s, and yes WRXs although they take most Hondas they go against. I'm not trying to sound like a jerk either I know I don't like the looks of EVOs basically econo box, but I do respect Mitsu AWD. It's just I haven't really seen one put it down and they seem to be one of the "must have" machines, yet nobody has really done much with one eccept rice them out here.
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Old 05-04-2004, 02:56 PM   #111
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Re: The evo8 or ls1 firebird trans am??

lol... Yeah, they are pretty quick considering what they are.. They can be fast in a drag race, but you have to abuse the crap out of the clutch and engine to get the top performance out of them.. Just imagine what a 6 grand launch would do to a clutch if performed over and over... OUCH!! I like the low end torque of my mach preferably.!! It will pull 1.9's from a gentle 1500 rpm launch..
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Old 05-04-2004, 03:11 PM   #112
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you guys are saying how the EVO is overated and that the WRX is much better. how so? i have 3 friends who owns each of those cars. a stock WRX is notorious for having a weak tranny. most of them can only run low 13's safely on that tranny. thats basically as fast as a stock EVO. there are a few who have gotten in the 12's but those are rare. now for the flagship STi. i also have a friend who owns one. and the STi and the EVO always race. and i'll tell you this, they take off identical, and their 1-3rd gears are identical. however once the STi hits 4th it will pull on the EVO by a car, and nothing more. and on the highway roll, if the EVO gets on it slighty before the STi, the STi will not catch up fast enough. if they punch it at the same time, the STi will very slowly walk the EVO. they really aren't that much different like most magazines have you believe they are. now heres the main advantage of the EVO. the Stock bottom end can handle 350-400whp. however on the semi open deck 2.5 boxer engine on the STi with cast iron pistons and steel rods many of them are known to blow at making only 400crank hp. so how is the STi soooo superior? i get a fair amount of exposure to both cars becasue both of those guys happen to be my best friends, and i always hear the STi owner complaining about how weak his engine is. of course the main culprit for the engines being so weak is a POS engine management system. once they change that with TURBO XS's U-TECH or COBB Tuning's ACESSPORT, the 2.5 should hold up better. but the strenght of both the EVO and the STi is not the same, and a modded evo will beat a modded STi. its been proven.

bottom line: i would never pick a WRX
if i had to leave the car stock i would pick the STi
if i were to mod, i would pick the EVO hands down.

P.S. both of my friends know how to drive their AWD's quit well, when i raced each one of them from a dig they will get usually a 3-4 car jump on me, and they don't bog off the line either. the STi usually sets his DCCD at 65% rear bias and thats what the STi launchs optimum at usually, putting down a 1.6 at the 60 ft mark, this was proven from a guy who went to the track trying all the different settings, and the STi even with that still can't beat the EVO at the launch ( meaning they launch equal off the line ) believe me there are many many people who can't drive these cars for shit. i just happen to be lucky to know a few of these people who actually can drive them. because i also know another person who have a EVO and the EVO was his first stick car. so yeah there are all kinds of EVO drivers out there. don't judge the cars speed if they cna't drive the car to its fullest potential.
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Old 05-04-2004, 03:44 PM   #113
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Re: Re: The evo8 or ls1 firebird trans am??

Quote:
Originally Posted by MACHTHIS
lol... Yeah, they are pretty quick considering what they are.. They can be fast in a drag race, but you have to abuse the crap out of the clutch and engine to get the top performance out of them.. Just imagine what a 6 grand launch would do to a clutch if performed over and over... OUCH!! I like the low end torque of my mach preferably.!! It will pull 1.9's from a gentle 1500 rpm launch..

abuse the crap out of the clutch?
get an upgrade.
then you're not abusing it.
get something designed for that...

i agree w/ what tat said completely.
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Old 05-04-2004, 03:49 PM   #114
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Re: The evo8 or ls1 firebird trans am??

How about they include all needed parts to handle what the car is capeable of. Obviously they didn't make the car to launch at crazy rpm's or the clutch would already be in there..
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Old 05-04-2004, 04:36 PM   #115
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Re: The evo8 or ls1 firebird trans am??

that clutch is not nearly as streetable as the stock one...
bean counters still get their way, even on higher end cars like the evo...
it's what happens when you're trying to hit your price range... you downgrade...

think about it...
there are some super easy things to do to your mach 1 to make power, or ways to free up power, and you wonder why the factory did it that way...
(like an over restrictive exhaust/intake)

this is the same...
they put a very driveable clutch in it...

you can upgrade to a very good clutch that's driveable, but you're paying for it...
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Old 05-04-2004, 05:50 PM   #116
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Re: The evo8 or ls1 firebird trans am??

But NOW you guys changed your arguemnt... the whole thing was that the EVO 8 is just as Fast as the LS1 STOCK, but if you swap in a new clutch, now it's not stock... so if you want to allow one mod each, throw some Drag Radials on the Firebird!
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Old 05-05-2004, 06:44 AM   #117
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Re: The evo8 or ls1 firebird trans am??

Quote:
Originally Posted by TatII
you guys are saying how the EVO is overated and that the WRX is much better. how so? i have 3 friends who owns each of those cars. a stock WRX is notorious for having a weak tranny. most of them can only run low 13's safely on that tranny. thats basically as fast as a stock EVO. there are a few who have gotten in the 12's but those are rare. now for the flagship STi. i also have a friend who owns one. and the STi and the EVO always race. and i'll tell you this, they take off identical, and their 1-3rd gears are identical. however once the STi hits 4th it will pull on the EVO by a car, and nothing more. and on the highway roll, if the EVO gets on it slighty before the STi, the STi will not catch up fast enough. if they punch it at the same time, the STi will very slowly walk the EVO. they really aren't that much different like most magazines have you believe they are. now heres the main advantage of the EVO. the Stock bottom end can handle 350-400whp. however on the semi open deck 2.5 boxer engine on the STi with cast iron pistons and steel rods many of them are known to blow at making only 400crank hp. so how is the STi soooo superior? i get a fair amount of exposure to both cars becasue both of those guys happen to be my best friends, and i always hear the STi owner complaining about how weak his engine is. of course the main culprit for the engines being so weak is a POS engine management system. once they change that with TURBO XS's U-TECH or COBB Tuning's ACESSPORT, the 2.5 should hold up better. but the strenght of both the EVO and the STi is not the same, and a modded evo will beat a modded STi. its been proven.

bottom line: i would never pick a WRX
if i had to leave the car stock i would pick the STi
if i were to mod, i would pick the EVO hands down.

P.S. both of my friends know how to drive their AWD's quit well, when i raced each one of them from a dig they will get usually a 3-4 car jump on me, and they don't bog off the line either. the STi usually sets his DCCD at 65% rear bias and thats what the STi launchs optimum at usually, putting down a 1.6 at the 60 ft mark, this was proven from a guy who went to the track trying all the different settings, and the STi even with that still can't beat the EVO at the launch ( meaning they launch equal off the line ) believe me there are many many people who can't drive these cars for shit. i just happen to be lucky to know a few of these people who actually can drive them. because i also know another person who have a EVO and the EVO was his first stick car. so yeah there are all kinds of EVO drivers out there. don't judge the cars speed if they cna't drive the car to its fullest potential.

Fact still remains when I've seen guys behind the wheel of them they just don't put it down! Sorry I'm not trying to insult your friends and their EVOs. You say you'd never choose the WRX well then don't seems pretty simple to me? Personally I like the WRX better and when it comes down to it the EVO is ugly.(JUST MY OPINION) You may think it's beautiful I don't. These kids get them, read in some import car mag how they run low 8's stock or watch 2F 2F and think WOW I'll eat Skylines with it! (Actually they wouldn't think bad of the all mighty Skyline or Supra) They think "I'll wax Porsches and Ferraris with it!" Then go out and don't put it down. Sorry it's just how it is. If you don't like the real world take it up with GOD.
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Old 05-05-2004, 01:42 PM   #118
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Re: Re: The evo8 or ls1 firebird trans am??

Quote:
Originally Posted by Filthy Sanchez
Fact still remains when I've seen guys behind the wheel of them they just don't put it down! Sorry I'm not trying to insult your friends and their EVOs. You say you'd never choose the WRX well then don't seems pretty simple to me? Personally I like the WRX better and when it comes down to it the EVO is ugly.(JUST MY OPINION) You may think it's beautiful I don't. These kids get them, read in some import car mag how they run low 8's stock or watch 2F 2F and think WOW I'll eat Skylines with it! (Actually they wouldn't think bad of the all mighty Skyline or Supra) They think "I'll wax Porsches and Ferraris with it!" Then go out and don't put it down. Sorry it's just how it is. If you don't like the real world take it up with GOD.
you are also forgeting the most important thing. your down in florida where its hotter then it is up here in the north east. your probrably around 80-90 degrees right now and also your in the tropical region of the states where its very humid. we all know that turbo cars are very sensitive to heat and that any car is sensitive to humidity. the reason why the EVO's are running slower usualy in where your at is because of the humidity and the hotter then usual weather. for comparisons sake go to the track and see if you can see a EVo or a STi run at the same day. i will bet you that they will run very similar times. and i am not arguing which car looks better, i know looks is purely a subjective term. i also perfer the look of the STi over the EVO. but thats a different arguement all together. all i'm saying is how is a EVO overated when the STI makes much more power, more tq, have a 6 speed and is barely faster then a EVO? see what i'm trying to get to here? and my friends EVO did beat a porsche. it happend on a nice cold night but it was a non turbo 911. it was on a one lane street and the porsche kept on downshifting to 1st beasue it was a stop light drag, and my friend with the EVO just floored it in 2nd and was dead even with it. imagine what would've happend if he did downshift to first or even better yet, launched the thing. that porsche would've been toast.
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Old 05-05-2004, 01:56 PM   #119
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Re: Re: The evo8 or ls1 firebird trans am??

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joseph1082
But NOW you guys changed your arguemnt... the whole thing was that the EVO 8 is just as Fast as the LS1 STOCK, but if you swap in a new clutch, now it's not stock... so if you want to allow one mod each, throw some Drag Radials on the Firebird!
my argument didn't change.

i did say that if you wear out the stock clutch and replace it with a high-po one, you can launch hard all day long.

i'm still saying that with a non-worn stock clutch, you can run just as fast as the firebird...

i still have the proof in an earlier post, with a noted 12.9 second run from a stock evo...
so?

i'm sure we could get that guy to get us a timeslip if you really want it, but then you'd want even more evidence of the car being stock, and the slip not doctored.

it's getting old.

simply put, if you want to launch it hard all day, the stock clutch isn't sufficient.

but until it wears out, it can more than get you into low 13's, or even high 12's.

so i didn't change any argument at all...
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Old 05-05-2004, 03:05 PM   #120
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Re: Re: Re: The evo8 or ls1 firebird trans am??

Quote:
Originally Posted by TatII
you are also forgeting the most important thing. your down in florida where its hotter then it is up here in the north east. your probrably around 80-90 degrees right now and also your in the tropical region of the states where its very humid. we all know that turbo cars are very sensitive to heat and that any car is sensitive to humidity. the reason why the EVO's are running slower usualy in where your at is because of the humidity and the hotter then usual weather. for comparisons sake go to the track and see if you can see a EVo or a STi run at the same day. i will bet you that they will run very similar times. and i am not arguing which car looks better, i know looks is purely a subjective term. i also perfer the look of the STi over the EVO. but thats a different arguement all together. all i'm saying is how is a EVO overated when the STI makes much more power, more tq, have a 6 speed and is barely faster then a EVO? see what i'm trying to get to here? and my friends EVO did beat a porsche. it happend on a nice cold night but it was a non turbo 911. it was on a one lane street and the porsche kept on downshifting to 1st beasue it was a stop light drag, and my friend with the EVO just floored it in 2nd and was dead even with it. imagine what would've happend if he did downshift to first or even better yet, launched the thing. that porsche would've been toast.


I live in California, I guess that could effect things somehow. Hey kudos to your friend for beating a Porshe non turbo with his turbo EVO. Hot day, Cold day, new day, old day I said what I said I meant what I meant all EVO overrated 100% kidding a little Dr. Seuss for you there. Say what you want it just seems that you are telling me nothing can touch an EVO (with the exception of the Skyline of course) and I'm just saying the ones that I've seen are basically loosing in the streets. I'm not trying to upset you hell maybe where you live nothing can touch them (with the exception of the vaunted Skyline of course) I just haven't seen it yet.
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