Oh No!

[PCH]

OH NO!

As some of you know, I'm in the market for a new car. I've test driven the 330ci and the 530i as well as the volvo c70 and s60.

To date, the 330ci is what I've been set on, but being a practical person, I know that I should test drive all available options in that class and price range.

Lexus IS 300: No as sporty but has good horse (215) and torque (~210). Lots of features in the base model as well. Drives pretty nice but I still like the 330 better (unless I could get a huge deal).

Now onto the "Oh NO" portion.

2002 all new Audi A4 3.0 Quattro!

AGHGHGHGH

A little bigger than I'm looking for a car, but it doesnt drive like it! 220hp, 225 or so torque! Tiptronic controls have no lag, all wheel drive and esp is incredible for sharp turns at low and high speed.

Now I'm contemplating the 330 vs the A4. My BMW ideal is being put to the test and I need some reality checks.

Like any good salesman I got the full info with lots of big words and phrases.

Now its time to cut through the BS on the cars and get down to real opinions by people that matter, those who own and use the cars every day.

I'm posting this in the audio area as well to see what people think.

Thanks in advance,

PCH

[bwaters]

It sounds like you've done your homework. I too was just recently in the market for either a 2002 325i or Audi A4, and I went with the BMW for several reasons. After owning a Volkswagen product, I witnessed far to many VW Audi horror incidents at the dealership. Although Audi has introduced a beautifully designed new A4 for 2002, I can almost guaruntee that you will be dealing with service issues before it makes it to 10,000 miles. The creaking and squeeking will drive you nuts! Perhaps Audi has changed things for this model year, but I still remain skeptical of their ability to produce a quality product. I would definately consider doing more research on Audi's reliability before making your decision. Good luck to you!

[PCH]

I am wondering about the breakin process.

I also wonder what type of stress is put on the individual tires / assembly.

They said that if the traction is lost, each tire is capable of receiving 65% of the engine power. So if 3 of ur tires are slidding, then the 1 that isnt will get 65% and the others will get 12% or so. Will that put undo strain on the metal, etc?

Also, this quattro thing. all 4 wheels are always vertical instead of cambering (rolling on the outside of the tire in turns). Is this independent movement good, or its is unreliable down the road with moer stress on the structure, etc.

I don't live in a area with bad weather aside from rain, so all wheel drive isnt a priority but is something nice especially for trips to ski, etc...

Oh yeah.. the engine is made out of aluminum instead of cast iron.. does that mean it cant hit to 200k mark? Does that mean resale down the road is going to decrease?

Thanks,

PCH

[bwaters]

PCH:

Honestly speaking, I wouldn't expect an Audi to make it to 200k miles, or even 100k for that matter without major incident. Audi has focused their business on the idea of design, rather than functionality or reliability. This fact is unfortunate, as I fall in love with every car they design. The materials are unique, and the cars themselves are too. However after owning a vehicle from the same company, and hearing numerous horror stories about Audi ( and I mean stories about very recent models) I just couldn't bring myself to buying one. Stick with the 330i, and I think that you'll be very happy with your decision!...but that's just me!

[Aero]

I intended to post this in the AudiWorld.com forum which I am a member of, but........seems like you need the advice:

It was around 11:00 in the morning today, when I went with my family to the Audi dealership. I wanted to test drive the new 1.8T. I have to say, I enjoyed the drive. Nice job with the car. Solid as a rock. Let me say this now, I have always loved Audis. As far as I can remember, I never wanted anything else. My parents used to always tell me, "check out the bmw, the 3 series, just at least test drive it.." I would say, no no no, I like the audis, nothings gonna change my mind. So I had this mentality going into the Audi dealership, agreeing with the dealer. I took a drive. Nice drive, except for the gear shifting, it wasn't as comfortable.

We got back to the dealership, and we talked about a price. By the time I'm done, I would be paying about 31-$32,000 grand for the car, with options like sunroof, no NAV system though. I thought, its okay, I like this car. Then the dealer started comparing it to the Bimmer. He said to go see the bimmer, go ahead, "you'll be back." I said, "fine, what the hell, I'll go see it." We drove about a minute or two to the BMW dealership. I looked around the showroom, and opened the door of a 330. Gray interior. I had to admit, it was beautiful. Absolutely a beauty. I still liked the Audi better though. Then he offered a testdrive. I said sure, why not.

He opens up the door to a white 325 with tan interior (two colors I can't stand in cars). He took it out to a parking lot, talked about how the ABS system covers all for sides of the car, as opposed to just the front. He put it in first, floored it, we were going fast. He slammed the brake. The car stayed 100% level. It didn't lurch down in front at all. "Impressive," I said. I still didn't think it would win me over the Audi. I get in the drivers seat, adjusting the seat, noticing the standard automatic adjustments. Put it in first gear and took off. My god, it took about 10 seconds to convice me this was my car. I couldn't understand. The shifting was precise, it was quick, the clutch was hydraulic, and felt sweet to the touch. The car sounded like a true sports car, and the drive quickly reminded me of an Acura NSX. When we got back, I was in awe. I couldn't belive that this car just beat the A4 in the drive. Then I was like, "this thing must cost a lot more than the 1.8T." Looked at the sticker, cost the very same, almost identical price, possibly a little less than the A4 if I remember correctly, I could be wrong though. Around $26-$27,000. Not only was the drive superb, the car came with leather, nav system, sunroof, power seats, the works, all for about the price of an A4 1.8T. Only drawback is that most everything is an option. Great car for the money. Was I convinced? Yes. I just wan't to say that the A4 is an excellent buy, great car, but the Bimmer comes over it in value, and performance. If it convinced ME, the biggest A4 fan, it might be something worth looking at. For those considering the A4, (which is an excellent car, don't get me wrong, I still love it, I just prefer the BMW now), I strongly recommend giving the 3-series a try, with stick shift of course. Let me add, to get the 3-series coupe in an automatic is an insult to the car. I am not here to discourage anyone from buying this car, I don't wanna get flamed for this, I just want to add an option to your choice of cars, if you are considering it.

-once again intended for the A4 forum, but I hope this helps.
regards,
-Aero

[bedheadfred]

The BMW is a great handing car with many desirable characteristics, but beware of terrible reliability and exceedingly poor customer service. I have a 2000 323ci and have had the following problems:

1. Wrong setbelt configuration installed on drivers side
2. Sunroof broke (2x)
3. A/C broke
4. Coolant thermostat replaced
5. Plastic screw that holds jack in place broke (took me 2 hours to unscrew so I could replace a flat)
6. 4 light bulbs out in 6 months (2 left side turn signals, 1 left head light, 1 right head light

All these problems occured in less than 20,000 miles! Now the driver's side door handle sticks (21,700 miles) and no one has ever called me back from customer service despite the fact that I have written several emails, 4 letters to CEO Tom Purves, and have called numerous times.

You can also check my earlier posts to get more details and to find out more about problems other owners have had.

Good Luck

[NJMAXSELTD]

PCH - The Volvo's are nice cars. They look sweet, not to sure on performance, I've never driven one. I own a Maxima, my other half has the 2001 330. All I can say is we've had this car for 6 months now and it is one incredable automobile. Fast, smooth, quiet, a pleasure to drive. The more you drive it, the more you can really feel the workmanship in that car.

As far as Audi goes, do yourself a favor and pass that one up. Unless your going to go for the A8. I've heard horror stories about A4's.

[JPA]

I have to say I echo virtually ALL of Aero's longish confessional a couple posts back, with ONE exception. The Audi beats the BMW hands-down in the "how much stuff do I get for my money" department.

Option for option, the BMW is way more expensive. Take it for a drive, though, and you just don't care how much all those useless options cost.

[Jimster]

Why is it that BMW, Audi and VW products sold in the US always seeem to have reliability problems????? Audi's, VW's and BMW's sold in New Zealand, Europe etc. oftenly reach high-mileages without any problems and have excellent customer service records

[bwaters]

Honestly, I think that American consumers are much more conscious of their ability to complain and get away with it. We have come to appreciate a very pro-consumer culture, meaning that the ball is almost always in our court. If the littlest problem occurs on my car, I want it fixed... take for example a door squeek. Even though a squeek may occur on say a VW product in other countries, it will probably go without a visit to the dealership. Just my thoughts though...