Uh, why do you Z guys even bother racing F-Bodies/Mustangs? I mean...

[vortech]

I think a lot of you guys don't understand the relationship between a turbo, S/C, and cast internal parts. I keep stressing over and over again forged internals-------not to insult anyone's intelligence-------but simply to reinforce to all that you need to be very leary of what you read about 'simply' being able to slap a blower or turbo on anything. YOU NEEED FORGED INTERNALS for high levels of boost! End of story. Cast parts-----just can't take the toll for long.

[Neutrino]

Ok and you obviously don't undestand what stop double posting means.


Also repeat this: weight is your worse enemy in races.

Also there is only so much you can do to the suspension to improve handling. Because you can do very little about chassy rigidity and weight ratio.

A sports car has a light weight very stiff chassis and a 50/50 weight ratio. Examples: new viper is just above 3000 punds ferraris have a perfect 50/50 etc.


If you mod the car to radiacally alter those factors then that is practically a different car.

[FYRHWK1]

Originally posted by Neutrino
Ok and you obviously don't undestand what stop double posting means.


Also repeat this: weight is your worse enemy in races.

Also there is only so much you can do to the suspension to improve handling. Because you can do very little about chassy rigidity and weight ratio.

A sports car has a light weight very stiff chassis and a 50/50 weight ratio. Examples: new viper is just above 3000 punds ferraris have a perfect 50/50 etc.


If you mod the car to radiacally alter those factors then that is practically a different car.

lol you cant? you've never heard of chassis braces, stronger K members and subframe connectors have you? how about rollcages? that will stiffen up ANY car beyond its need. yeah thats not much.
weight is the enemy, it is not the deciding factor. it doesnt mean that if a car weighs alot it cant handle.

[vortech]

could not have said it better myself . . . FYRHWK1 understands the concept, take a lesson from him Neutrino
THIS IS WHY double posting has to go on----because of stupid remarks like this one: "If you mod the car to radiacally alter those factors then that is practically a different car." What the hell are you talking about??????? What do you think the point is with modifying a car------to reduce its performance. Go to a thread where no one talks about modifying stock cars---I mean--thats where your talents are better suited. You obviously don't know the kind of suspension equipment thats in place on a Viper or Z06. Let me sum it up for you---because your posts reflect that you just don't understand that those 2 vehicles have what is equivalent to what can be found in the mustang aftermarket. An aftermarket K-member offered by Kenny brown can give a cobra an extra inch and 1/4 in the wheelbase----and the aftermarket control arms developed------make the stock vs. aftermarket handling, seem like night and day. You obviously have never owned or driven a stang with these kind of suspension alterations. I live the argument------because my 01 cobra-----is just about as aftermarket as you can get----I don't even know why I bother to argue with some of you guys. There are so many stang owners who have done the same thing I have, and would call you out on your foolishness if they heard your remarks. Because some of you psoters don't know squat. Some of your vehicles mods probably don't even go beyond a chip, air filter, and exhaust. Some of you guys don't go any further than lowering springs------so how could you know what it takes to handle over600hp and outhandle the Z06s and Vipers. Some of you guys read car mags----yet don't know jack about the kind of equipment used in the cars engines, suspension, etc. Don't even know how it pertains to real, road contact. I guess that explains why we get retarded posts like 'don't double post'. Shoot your mouth off about things you know------because you sound foolish otherwise.

[vortech]

there are other aspects besides how much horsepower and torque-------like what kind of differential, rear end, transmission you have on a car. It isn't simply about horsepower and weight pal. You can rebuild a car's rear end and see an absolutely trremendous difference in performance. For argument's sake----a Cobra's rear end can be rebuilt----to handle wicked horsepower and at the same time have tremendous traction. Hell, you can do that to practically any car----as long as the aftermarket equipment is outhere. I've done it to my stang---and all for no more than $1,700 in parts. Thats still a heck of a lot less than you would think!

[Polygon]

Originally posted by vortech
you are pretty silly boasting about your car comparison proof------because you are referring to a car magazine that compared the Mach 1 & Z-----. This car magazine speaks nothing of the engine highs and lows. Who ever spoke of the Mach 1 being so great----is living in fantasy land. For all you guys talkin smack about just slapping on a turbo to Z------you are going to spend a ton of money on the current engine------because you have to UPGRADE TO FORGED INTERNALS! I'm not wasting my time explaining forged----because you are not running any kind of boost like the 03 Cobra----without upgrading the Z's internals------thats a steep price in the wallet. The 03 Cobra is forged equipped baby. And A Z is not going to make 500rwt like the cobra. Cobra may be heavier------but the monster torque makes up the difference.
Lastly, anyone who puts up a pick as ugly as a Lebaron ---- well----is going to get hiked on. Sorry, but that car is ugly. Could care less how fast it may be------its ugly. Let me repeat---its hideous. And anyone who says it isn't----you aren't being honest--an simply just want to start a wave to whack me. It is hideous-----and its not beautiful at all. May be fast, but the looks---are vomit material. I bet if I put up a pick of a neon with one of those rediculous wings that you see on Hondas----I get the same response. There is nothing wrong with indicating that a car is ugly. If you can't deal with an opinion and are too sensitive--then you need to go elsewhere ----where people speak no truth whatsover. What the hell happened to people-----nothing but pansies are being raised in this country. Its not flaming----that car is ugly-----and if I displayed that car------I'd get the same response from the board. Some of you guys ------ sound like absolute homos., No offense of course. :silly2:

That post proves nothing more than the fact that you are unintelligent and ignorant. I never meant to flame, but you make statements that are PURE opinion and expect us to take them as fact. With all the bottom ends of the 4.6 going out, I would say that those FORGED internals need to be reworked. And 20 PSI, you think that is a lot, you are a moron. I could run over 25PSI on the stock engine and internals in my LeBaron. So nobody cares about 20 PSI, a DSM can run more than that on the stock engine and internals. It is nothing impressive. I know a lot about FI and you just seem to know what you have read in magazines. Your signature just makes me laugh, just throw a blower on a Viper and you can kiss your ass goodbye. Also the GTS-R can get over 750HP N/A so your 555RWHP is no big deal. You can't compare your car to Viper because it has more potential than your Mustang's engine could dream of. Comparing modded cars to cars that are stock is merely a way for someone to make themselves feel better. Big deal, my modded car can beat your stock car. Like I give a damn. At least driving a Viper isn't like driving an F-150.

As for you comment on my car, this confirms your ignorance. Once again that is simply your opinion, and you are one of few who feel that way, I have received a lot more great compliments on my car than I have bad ones. Don't go trying to pass your opinion off as fact. I like the looks of my car, that is all that matters, not your bad taste, and that is my opinion.

Also calling us all homos, real tactful. That might get some respect in second grade; it will get you none here. Also, please type a little more coherently; people might actually give you some shred of respect if you made an effort to portray some intelligence.

I am done, I won’t answer to anymore ignorant posts, only valid and informed intelligent posts.

[kris]

I dont like the way this thread is turning out. It's also putting negative marks against some potential mods.

[Neutrino]

Originally posted by FYRHWK1


lol you cant? you've never heard of chassis braces, stronger K members and subframe connectors have you? how about rollcages? that will stiffen up ANY car beyond its need. yeah thats not much.
weight is the enemy, it is not the deciding factor. it doesnt mean that if a car weighs alot it cant handle.

Ok the point i was trying to make is that if you stiffen up the car you'll increase its weight quite a bit. In order to compensate for that you'll have to strip almost everything else out of the car or make some serious mods. Well at one point that car will have almost nothing stock therefore being basically a different car. You can make a geo metro into a super car with huge funds.

A car like the lotus elise on the other hand has a very lighweight chassis that is incredebly stiff therefore needinng no mods to make it into an awesome performer.

And vortec before flaming me you should read my some of my other posts and then judge my knowledge.
thanks for telling me about diferentials cuz i have no ideea about them. Oh wait except that i want to install a quaife lsd on my car but what do i know.

Btw if you really want to see a car expert about forced induction try talking to hybridsol i believe he can teach you a thing or two. Or show you his 10 sec dx with a turbo b18c on which he spent only 4k btw. And this comes from a person that does not like hondas the best but because of people like hybridsol i started to get more and more respect for their engines.


Also Kris it might be better to close this thread considering it is extremelly inflamatory starting with its title.

[FYRHWK1]

well yes you will increase the weight, and to make up for it you can go to lighter weight body paneling and suspension components, driveshafts, etc etc, theres tradeoffs for anything, you make it sound like the stock chassis is incredibly weak.
the mustangs i can agree to this on, i've seen quite a few reports about the chassis not handling the extra frontend load of the blower & iron block, this isnt so of every car, most domestics have a stiffer frame then a typical import because of the extra weight put into it.

and polygon, you seem to know FI pretty well, you must know that the PSI the turbo puts out doesnt mean very much in terms of part stress. pressurizing the air column more doesnt always force more air in if the turbo cant flow it, and a smaller engine will require more turbo pressure to make equal amounts of power.
its really just the amount of resistence within the motor, airflow tells how much power you'll make.

[Neutrino]

Ok i wasn't saying that the mustang frame was mush or that domestics have poor frames. If you'll look at what car i drive you'll see its domestic. The point that i was trying to pass was that suspension upgrades alone will no make the car handle perfect.

[Polygon]

Originally posted by FYRHWK1
and polygon, you seem to know FI pretty well, you must know that the PSI the turbo puts out doesnt mean very much in terms of part stress. pressurizing the air column more doesnt always force more air in if the turbo cant flow it, and a smaller engine will require more turbo pressure to make equal amounts of power.
its really just the amount of resistence within the motor, airflow tells how much power you'll make.

Thanks, and that is very true. I guess my statements were somewhat rash. I know quite a bit about turbocharging and N2O, but I must admit that I have limited knowlege when it comes to superchargers.

Plus, s/c and t/c work too differently, they can't really be compared too well in respects of pressure output I suppose.

[FYRHWK1]

i realize you cant just throw suspension components (of any serious stiffness anyway) in there and expect the ultimate handling car, but the suspension has more play & give to it then the chassis does, you'll see a big improvement with just tires and springs on an F body, mustangs however, i know nothing about.

you have to look at the market of the cars, the F body was popular in a time when people liked to do all the mods to their cars, when things were simple and it just took an afternoon to throw the shit on and you were done.
plus they cost less then the elise, they're built with saving money in mind and letting the consumer modify it to their needs, and i cant think of any car more flexible in that regard then a ponycar, but i'm getting off topic.

yeah, SCs usually push alot of air without major pressurization, they rev up exactly with the motor so they're (supposted to anyway) going to supply it all the air it needs at that point, plus they flow a ton more air since the impellers/rotors/screws/whatever are so facking big, i dunno if you've ever held a weiand screw before but those bastards are huge

[Neutrino]

Yes a friend of mine had a 2001 trans am and he did some suspension upgrades and I was quite impressed by the handling. And a good supension upgrade will do wonders for handling but still there is no replacement for a good stiff lightweight and perfectly balanced chasis.

I was just giving the elise as an example because its such an amazing pure sports car. And from what i hear is not that expensive a little above 30k from what i hear.

[Redlined_V8]

Originally posted by warpedmindZ
i own a 350 Z and i can tell you that this car will out perform almost any of the american v8s on the road. not only does it handle much better and get much better gas miles. it has a much sexier look than those damn mustangs that people by because they thing that they are getting a high performance car. if they were to drive a Z for one day they would most definatly change there mind about the hole american made only thing.

God I really hope you get to read this sometime. If what you say is really what you believe, then you have not had the pleasure and thrill of driving a Corvette ZO6. Not only does a ZO6 have the torque and hp to blow the doors off of your 350 Z, but it will do better on a twisty road with sugical precision, it will handle on a twisty road with satellite laser guided precision. The ONLY cars to top a ZO6 would be the names of Ferrari, Porche, Jaguar, and so on. Think about those names, those are some high class, very well performing names, and Chevrolet, an American company is running right along with them, and will someday be right there within them. I know not everyone can like the same thing, i understand that, but you have to trust me, a 350 Z will never touch the power, handling, class, and most importantly, will never have the sophistication and history of a Vette. And if you might be one to really care about handling, a ZO6 will pull 1.01 g's. Thats some pretty damn good suspension. I have had the pleasure, only once, of driving a 03 ZO6, and until you're the one with one hand on the wheel, and the other slamming the shifter through the gears as you wrap up that tightly wound V8 and go literally screaming down the road and feels the g's pushing you back in your seat, you will never fully understand, the awesomeness of a ZO6 Corvette.

[Redlined_V8]

I thought i'd add one more thing, the Vette is a very docile car to, it's easy to get along w/. it is a very easy car to drive around in a down town area, for example, you can leave it in 3rd or 4th gear and just putt around town. thats pretty good. And it has enough trunk space for a small tent, sleeping bags, or a couple of golf clubs. Or whatever you have planned, it'll hold a little more than you think, it gets good props for that considering its size. So for a 400+ hp car, its very much still user freindly and easy to get along with.