Road & Track Compares M3, Z06, & 911

[Vertigo]

I don't understand why people compare the Vette and the M3. They are two completly different cars for two different buyers.

The Vette has a sexy exterior amazing performance and it is about uncompromised speed.Yet it does retain some qualities that allow it to be a daily driver sort of.

The Z06 - Wants to live on the race track and has what it takes to win.

The M3 has a well appointed luxurious cabin that can seat 4 comfortably. Also it has great performance numbers but it can still fit into a conservative take the clients out to dinner mold.

They are both great cars but for different lifestyles. Discussing whether one is .5 seconds faster than the other is really useless. The real question is what kind of experience do want to get out of your car

Luxury 4 seater with the true heart of a sports car - M3

Sexy performace driven race car that doubles as a daily driver - Vette

Your lifestyle should determine which one you choose. Since we are having this conversation on the Vette board I can guess which one the majority of you guys will go for, and thats great.

I think the magazines do us all a bit of a dis-service by taking cars that were built on 2 diffferent premises and comparing them at all, no matter what the numbers say.

[Blackbird01]

Originally posted by Vertigo
I don't understand why people compare the Vette and the M3. They are two completly different cars for two different buyers.

The Vette has a sexy exterior amazing performance and it is about uncompromised speed.Yet it does retain some qualities that allow it to be a daily driver sort of.

The Z06 - Wants to live on the race track and has what it takes to win.

The M3 has a well appointed luxurious cabin that can seat 4 comfortably. Also it has great performance numbers but it can still fit into a conservative take the clients out to dinner mold.

They are both great cars but for different lifestyles. Discussing whether one is .5 seconds faster than the other is really useless. The real question is what kind of experience do want to get out of your car

Luxury 4 seater with the true heart of a sports car - M3

Sexy performace driven race car that doubles as a daily driver - Vette

Your lifestyle should determine which one you choose. Since we are having this conversation on the Vette board I can guess which one the majority of you guys will go for, and thats great.

I think the magazines do us all a bit of a dis-service by taking cars that were built on 2 diffferent premises and comparing them at all, no matter what the numbers say.

AMEN TO THAT!

[Z06Lover]

Originally posted by fearless_simian
ok luke that is going a little far. vettes are wonderful. i love them but they aren't as godly as you seem to think. they are not better then all porsches. I am sorry but a z06 is amazing at $50k but it is not going to compete that closely and certainly not destroy a $200k porsche. it just won't happen. and don't go generalizing and call all japanese cars crap. there are some real gems in there. rx-7 tt, supra tt, 300zx tt. admittedly the z06 can beat some of the jap cars but not all of them.

I agree that vettes are great for the money, but anyone who has sat in a Porsche, Ferrari, or Lambo knows that if you have more money you get more car. The Z06 maybe as fast as the 911 turbo in almost all respects, but you need new brakes and a transmission cooler to run with a 996TT on the track. While, these do not somehow make the Z06 cost as much as teh $120k 911 turbo...it just shows that Porsche did more research in making the 911 turbo a track monster right out of the box. Also, the interior of the z06 is a far cry from a 911 turbo, new ferrari or lambo...again part of the price difference. While, a Z06 is fast as hell and has great numbers they have been show to get beat by other cars through corners. Having a huge engine up front doen't exactly give them supreme handling feel or control.

With that being said the Z06 is the best bang for the buck all around sports car on the marked..followed by my car the s2000 IMO. I'm talking new cars here. Also, a Z06 will run away from any japanese stock sports car on the planet. No Supra TT, Rx7, S2000,300zx,WRX Sti, Evo 7, or skyline can run with a Z06 if the japanese car is stock. 2002 Z06's are pushing high 11's stock in the 1/4. I have seen the timeslips personally. With Header, exhaust, and intake they can be running mid 11's for around $2k..not bad. Also, i hate comparing NA engines with turbos. There is no comparison. I would rather have a lower HP NA motor anyday for driving around town or a track then some turbo motor. Throttle response and controlability just go down hill fast with a turbo setup. Now if all you are is a 1/4 junkie FI is the way to go. Anyone seen the video of the Lingenfelter TT 427 vette running a 9.7 1/4. The car sounds and looks no different then a regular vette at idle...the thing is just amazing. There is a video where it runs with a viper ACR...oh my!! Talk about getting walked!

[Porsche911T]

Why do they compare the Z06 with a Porsche 911. They are comparing the top of the line Corvette with the bottom of the line Porsche 911. If your going to compare a top of the line Corvette ZO6 than compare it to the top of the line Porsche 911 Turbo. The Corvette ZO6 doesn't even come close. Porsche did 0-60 in 3.9 seconds a LONG time ago. Back even before 1997. That was when Corvettes broke the 5 second barrier with a 0-60 in 4.7 seconds. The time differences with the Porsche 911 turbos and Corvette ZO6 are so great that the cars can't even be compared. Don't get started with price tages. Sure the Trubo Costs more but its a Porsche. The Corvette is a Chevy. What sounds better? "I got a Chevy baby!" Or "Wanna ride my Porsche-uh?" I'll take the Porsche anyday. And it's not all about looks. Not definetly not. The Porsche is a great deal. You just don't know what your getting with it. Tip-tronic tranny. (this isn't new) A MUCH SAFER CAR! 4 wheel drive. UNBELIEVABLE handling. And incredible areodynamics in the Porsche-uh not only make it faster, but sticks in on the road. A Porsche-uh base 911 to turbo can take corners at speeds the Corvette ZO6 would'nt even dare to take. And you get all the luxury of a luxury car in the Porsche-uh. The new Porsche-uh 911s do 0-60 in 3.7 (some faster) and Porsche is soon to release a supercar. A PRODUCTION car that will be faster than the mclaren, and maybe even the Sledgehammer. Cayanne? The fastest SUV soon to be released by Porsche. What's this say about a company? It makes the best and fastest cars. Chevy shouldn't even be compared to a porsche. The other thing thats odd is that Porsche cars are 6 cylenders while corvettes are 8. Porsche handles better, and is much faster. Hows a top speed of 190mph sound for an old 911 turbo? STOCK!

"It's just Porsche magic."

[bluevette74]

well if the z06 couldnt compete with the porsche, then why would car magazines be doing comperison storys on the two cars? sure porsche could beat the z06, but it will cost 50k more! And if chevy put 50k more into the z06, lamborghini would have a hard time keeping up! And if you think that porshce has better aerodynamics than the zo6 then your a retard! sure any six cylendar can be fast with a turbo, put a turbo on the 5.7L and see what happens. You need to get off your soap box and go buy a vette!

[Z06Lover]

Originally posted by Porsche911T
Why do they compare the Z06 with a Porsche 911. They are comparing the top of the line Corvette with the bottom of the line Porsche 911. If your going to compare a top of the line Corvette ZO6 than compare it to the top of the line Porsche 911 Turbo. The Corvette ZO6 doesn't even come close. Porsche did 0-60 in 3.9 seconds a LONG time ago. Back even before 1997. That was when Corvettes broke the 5 second barrier with a 0-60 in 4.7 seconds. The time differences with the Porsche 911 turbos and Corvette ZO6 are so great that the cars can't even be compared. Don't get started with price tages. Sure the Trubo Costs more but its a Porsche. The Corvette is a Chevy. What sounds better? "I got a Chevy baby!" Or "Wanna ride my Porsche-uh?" I'll take the Porsche anyday. And it's not all about looks. Not definetly not. The Porsche is a great deal. You just don't know what your getting with it. Tip-tronic tranny. (this isn't new) A MUCH SAFER CAR! 4 wheel drive. UNBELIEVABLE handling. And incredible areodynamics in the Porsche-uh not only make it faster, but sticks in on the road. A Porsche-uh base 911 to turbo can take corners at speeds the Corvette ZO6 would'nt even dare to take. And you get all the luxury of a luxury car in the Porsche-uh. The new Porsche-uh 911s do 0-60 in 3.7 (some faster) and Porsche is soon to release a supercar. A PRODUCTION car that will be faster than the mclaren, and maybe even the Sledgehammer. Cayanne? The fastest SUV soon to be released by Porsche. What's this say about a company? It makes the best and fastest cars. Chevy shouldn't even be compared to a porsche. The other thing thats odd is that Porsche cars are 6 cylenders while corvettes are 8. Porsche handles better, and is much faster. Hows a top speed of 190mph sound for an old 911 turbo? STOCK!

"It's just Porsche magic."

are you on crack?
R&T got 3.9 0-60 with 996 911 TT.
4.0 with Z06 pretty much the difference is launching with AWD vs RWD.
Motor Trend same thing.
Both torch off the 1/4 mile in high 11's.
Both finish at about 160mph in the standing mile.
Both have similar corner speeds on tracks with the Z06 winning in the tight corners and the 996 TT going faster in longer sweepers. Both have similar braking distances. The Z06 has issues with brake fade and transmission over heating but both can be fixed for under $5k. So at a price of less then half of a 911 TT you get a car that is roughly equivalent in stock form. Now if you wanna talk mods the handling of having an engine in the back can give you an advantage, but having an extra 2.1 liters can give you an even bigger advantage. Some of the fastest street cars i have seen run on road courses have been 993 911's, 944 turbos and you aren't gonna believe this but it is true IROC's!! head over to cornercarvers.com and ask them about good track cars.

Now if you just wanna impress chicks...screw paying $120k+ for a 911 turbo..buy a ferrari 308 for about 25k and most chicks are so dumb they will think you have money cuz you have a ferrari and jump in your car. Of course you now a money grubbing hooker in the car with you...but that is your business. \

oh by the way...the carrera Gt will have a mid-mounted v10, with around 580 HP and weigh in the 2400lb range...making it incredibly fast, but not as fast as a mclaren. It is an open cock-pit (convertible with no top like the F50) so no way it will have a top speed faster then the mclaren or the sledgehammer. The only car that will top those two will be the new buggati with the quad turbo W16 engine pushing 1009 HP. The carrera GT is a stunning looking car and the handling should be on par with any road car ever made.

[Blackbird01]

Amen.

Porsche, sure it's a great car, but for 120k? Come on...Tiptronic Transmission ISN'T anything "new". It's in the damn ECLIPSE!
You can have your Porsche and your new fangled "Tiptronic" transmission. I'd take a ZO6, spend the extra money I saved, stop by Lingenfelter and have him build me a 427TT motor with the Aerodynamics kit...
Faster then your Porsche will EVER be.

Just stop by www.Lingenfelter.com and check out their 427TT.

[Porsche911T]

Retarted? No. If anyone is retarted it's you. Porsche has downforce and is slick which is tuff to get in a car. This car bites into turns and is slippery. The Corvettes end tends to break traction and spin out on turns. Thats what happens when you put too much horse power in a car that can't take it. Porsches have as much if not more horsepower in their turbos but they can take the power much better than a RWD vette. Oh, as for the 200+ mph porsche thats going to be faster than the mclaren and sledgehammer? You got the wrong one, get your information striaght I know what im talking about. I would say one of the best cars ever built would be the Porsche 959. This car is faster than a Vettes 170mph, infact the porsche 959 does 198mph. What about performance? Try 0-60 in 3.6 seconds. Thats faster than a vette will ever be.. but speed isn't the only thing! A sledgehammer may be slightly faster than this by 40mph tops... but what the sledge hammer built to tackle offroad dunes and WRC conditions? NO! This car is also older than the sledgehammer.... this is the monster:

But wait, theres more! What about that 200+ mph beast I was telling you about that can beat a sledgehammer or a F1? It's a Porsche! 200+ mph only 700 horses? This car has been seen blowing past the radar at already 220 mph, which isn't near It's limit! It can go much faster. Thats magic... heres the beast:



So please, before you so everyone how full of stupidity you are, get your information straight. A corvette is like a honda civic to porsche!

[Z06Lover]

Originally posted by Blackbird01
Amen.

Porsche, sure it's a great car, but for 120k? Come on...Tiptronic Transmission ISN'T anything "new". It's in the damn ECLIPSE!
You can have your Porsche and your new fangled "Tiptronic" transmission. I'd take a ZO6, spend the extra money I saved, stop by Lingenfelter and have him build me a 427TT motor with the Aerodynamics kit...
Faster then your Porsche will EVER be.

Just stop by www.Lingenfelter.com and check out their 427TT.

i agree, but for many road courses a properly setup 700HP 911 (the gemballa turbo for example) will run circles around a lingenfelter vette. The engine in the back gives a 911 an amazing edge in corner ability when driven correctly...even though it can be very difficult. Now as far as 1/4 is concerned the vette will win everytime, but a old camaro can be made to run faster then a TT vette very easily and cheaply in the 1/4. so it is all relative. The vette is as fast as the 911 turbo, but much cheaper, but an old fixer upper can be faster then the vette for less money also. It all comes down to what you want in a car and how much money you have. I would love a 996 TT since i'm porsche junkie, since i was 6!! I would also love the new VW W12, Z06, Ferrari 360 modena, etc! And, I drive an S2000 right now...go figure!! I love sports cars what can I say!

[Porsche911T]

By old camaro, how old? I'm a camaro fan.

[JD@af]

Okay, okay, I understand the nature of heated debate. But I don't want people calling each other "retards" and what-not. So try to keep it friendlier. Carry on.

Thanks, Happy New Year-

-JD

[Z06Lover]

Originally posted by Porsche911T
Retarted? No. If anyone is retarted it's you. Porsche has downforce and is slick which is tuff to get in a car. This car bites into turns and is slippery. The Corvettes end tends to break traction and spin out on turns. Thats what happens when you put too much horse power in a car that can't take it. Porsches have as much if not more horsepower in their turbos but they can take the power much better than a RWD vette. Oh, as for the 200+ mph porsche thats going to be faster than the mclaren and sledgehammer? You got the wrong one, get your information striaght I know what im talking about. I would say one of the best cars ever built would be the Porsche 959. This car is faster than a Vettes 170mph, infact the porsche 959 does 198mph. What about performance? Try 0-60 in 3.6 seconds. Thats faster than a vette will ever be.. but speed isn't the only thing! A sledgehammer may be slightly faster than this by 40mph tops... but what the sledge hammer built to tackle offroad dunes and WRC conditions? NO! This car is also older than the sledgehammer.... this is the monster:

But wait, theres more! What about that 200+ mph beast I was telling you about that can beat a sledgehammer or a F1? It's a Porsche! 200+ mph only 700 horses? This car has been seen blowing past the radar at already 220 mph, which isn't near It's limit! It can go much faster. Thats magic... heres the beast:



So please, before you so everyone how full of stupidity you are, get your information straight. A corvette is like a honda civic to porsche!

Oh so because a corvette is RWD it can't be as fast as an AWD 996 TT because it has too much power to the rear wheels?? OH man...where do these guys come from. You know which street car holds the record at laguna seca for the fastest time ever a 993 modified porsche running RWD instead of AWD at over 700 HP. Every car in the top 10 is a RWD only car. So how does the vette have disadvantage by running RWD only??

The 959 was a great car, but anyone who knows cars knows that is was too heavy and got torched by F40 back in the day. Of course it ran off road, but also it got smoked on ralley courses by subarus. It did the win the paris dakar ralley which is a lame rally race. It never could take on the more common rally races that you see on espn 2 because it AWD system (which was amazing, the best system ever made in terms of how good it worked) was very heavy and it made the car too heavy.
here is a good AWD article
http://www.eskimo.com/~eliot/awd.html
good article on the 959 vs f40. The 959 had a faster 0-60, but by the time the speeds got to 100 and above the F40 just torched it because of it's higher HP and less drivetrain losses and much lower weight.
http://www.fortunecity.com/silversto.../959/959_9.htm

Of course the 959, and 911 TT that have awd are gonna hookup better, but going 0-60 the fastest does not a race car make. Most road courses you are going faster then 60 through many corners and many have 1-3 miles straigh stretches.
Also which 911 TT does 0-60 in 3.6, the 1997 993 Turbo S was the only one to ever be tested that fast. The 959 also did it, but it wasn't a 911. The 911 turbo does not have a 3.6 0-60, but is a faster car overall since it has a better coefficent of friction.

When this super porsche that runs over 220+ (whichs is still less the the mclaren of sledghammers top speed by 20+mph and less then the new buggati's by 30 mph) comes out then I will give you that one. But since it is going to have 700HP or so and the bugatti is going to have 1009HP...hmmm...I wonder which will havea higher top speed. Top speed is a function of HP and coefficent of drag. The bugatti will win the HP race by over 300HP and has a very slippery shape...good lock porsche.
info on this awesome car
.http://www.vwvortex.com/news/09_01/bugatti/index.shtml

996 TT has downforce?? hahah...the standard 911 actually creates lift at over 100mph that is what the Gt3 aero kit was designed for to cancel that lift. Even with that kit a standard 911 doesn't create downforce, but instead gets rid of the annoying and dangerous lift. A stock bodies C5 ran 226 MPH with a 620HP TT Lingenfelter kit. That was with no modifications to the body. The only reason the vette has a top speed of only 170 (2002 Z06) is because of gearing. 5th and 6th gear are a little too high for gas mileage concerns.

I didn't show any stupidity. The only thing i misunderstood was the fact you were talking about a porsche super car that doesn't exist. It is has not be annouced by Porsche for production. The only porsche super car that has been annouced for production is the carrera GT.
here is a quote about your porsche super car:
"Although its existence is denied by Porsche officials, rumors have been circulating throughout the German automotive press for some time now about a new supercar currently in development. Details are sketchy, but early guesses pin the horsepower number around 700 and the top speed at over 220 mph. Power will likely come from an enlarged version of the 4.5-liter aluminum V8 from the
upcoming Cayenne SUV."
I hope it comes out...I would love to see it.
You said a 911 turbo does 0-60 in 3.6 secs. That is pretty vague since only one 911 turbo has ever done that. When you post be more specific and don't try to get people pissed by posting in the corvette forum about how much better porsche's are. I love porsche's, but corvettes are great cars too, and so are ferraris and others.

By the way I'm curious what do you drive? Can I see a picture of it?

[Z06Lover]

Originally posted by Porsche911T
By old camaro, how old? I'm a camaro fan.

well, i saw a 69 (i think it was a 69, but i may have been a 68) run a low 8 1/4 pass here in oregon at woodburn drag strip. Of course it had a blower the size of basketball sticking out of the hood!!
here is one!

7.93 @ 178mph!

[bluevette74]

So your telling me that porsche has better aerodynamics, because its slick and has downforce! Man you proved me wrong! You dont think that the z06 has downforce? and is slick!

[Porsche911T]

Yeah I see lots of 60s camaros at my drag track. I'm thinking of getting a late 70s camaro.. seems like a very reliable car.. not the fastest but something my dad had and he realy enjoyed. Plus they are cheap now, and it looks like the value is only going up.