harley vs. sport bikes

[89IROC&RS]

oh and i went back and found the post on the recals you were talking about. and as a dealership technition, those recalls dont really faze me, aside from the ones dealing with the rear swing arm and shock mount. if you had any idea how many recalls are out on cars and trucks fresh of the showroom floor, it would make you terrified to go out on the road. and to say that its a big deal that it was buells entire model lineup, they make three bikes. lol. its not like a 12-20 model lineup that all have problems. also as an engineering major, i have to ask, has anyone on here tried to design a performance motorcycle???? im just saying, its an extreamly complex deal, and problems are expected. but i do have to admit, the one about the swing arm and shock mount are eye opening. ill have to make sure any buell i buy will have had that recall done. or ill have to get it done before i ride it.

[R1-rider]

OK, i will say it again, the 12r is not a flickable bike, it is heavy and most the weight is too high. I have riden a couple buells before, and was very far from deeming them a satisfying streetfighter styled bike. They are PLAGUED with problems, the recalls are not something that has a very random tendency to go bad, there have been significant problems with buells having very faulty parts.

When you look at the same year generation of sport twins from japan, you can see the refinement in absolutely everything about the bike. When you are like buell and do not compete in the WSB or AMA, your motorcycle devolepment team is not under any stress to develop the absolute best motorcycle they can produce. That is the difference between buell and other jap twins. I would love to be able to buy an american made product and be confident in its ability as a motorcycle to function, however with a buell it is far from that.

[89IROC&RS]

no pressure, and yet they are coming out with revolutionary ideas such as a frame/fuel tank, swing arm/oil tank, and a rim mounted brake rotor to reduce the flex felt during hard braking. im just saying, that when you are trying to make something so different, you are bount to hit problems. there is a new car upon which i work, that is soon to have a recall on the steering column, because the power asist, can turn off, and make it impossible to turn the wheel. hows that for loosing control. i dunno man, everyone is intiteld to their opinon, and its obvious what yours is, but its not gosple. i have not heard many bad things about the bikes from any compairson i have read, or magazine articals, or reviews. to be completely honest, sounds like you just like imports, and bash the buell cuz youve had a bad experience. kinda the same way i bash import cars and mustangs. could be wrong, but just how i see it. no offence intended.

[89IROC&RS]

oh and i have to agree that the X1 is larger than i thought at 440lbs.and therefore probly not as flickable as a smaller import bike, but the XB12R is only 395lbs, is designd to have the lowest center of gravity that it can, and has been praised as suceeding at these tasks in every review i have read. 103hp and 84lbs feet are pretty impressive to me, i dunno man, that sounds like a pretty hot bike no matter how you cut it. and it does look cool dont it

[R1-rider]

I have never had a bad experience with buell, I never owned one so its problems never really affected me (although when a friend couldnt go riding because his buell was in the shop, it did affect me). All in all I tend to be biased by motorcycle companies previous mistakes, and have to be shown that they are taking drastic changes to try and combat any more defects in their products. Look at ford, I will never buy a ford either. I worked at my uncles auto damage appraisal business for awhile, and we saw ford (cars) going to the shop left and right for being just pieces of shit. The same concept goes for buell, originating from harley, since untill just a few months ago buell was still a subsidized company of harley, however since then they have branched away. You are right, ofcourse there are going to be problems when you are trying to come out with revolutionary ideas, but why do you they feel the need to come out with these ideas? Obviously there is not good charachteristics to be gained from doing this, otherwise it would be more adopted. When I look at buell's design, from just many years of automechanics and simple engineering knowledge, I can see parts and designs just ready to break. And when I am on a motorcycle, the absolute last thing I want is to not have complete and total faith in my motorcycle.

And you are right, 100hp and 85ftlbs (at the crank, 90rwhp 74ftlbs) would be a good amount of power, if it didnt make that power at 5000 rpms. An engine that is not capable of revving very high makes considerable less power than an engine capable of high revs. Just imagine this as well, a engine that makes 100hp and 5000rpm and is geared at 1:1 (every rotation of the wheel is 1 rotation of the crank), now take a engine that makes 50hp at 10000rpm, this engine can be geared 1:2 (every rotation of the wheel is 2 rotations of the crank), now this engine will be at double the engine revolutions, however since it is geared basically in half you are technically doubling your horsepower. So again, the bikes do have good dyno power, however on a track, the lowend torque may save you from downshifting sometimes into turns, but the lack of topend kills it on the straights.

btw, aircooled sportbikes? rofl what a joke, would love to see that bike keep up with me on the track for a few laps without overheating (sure the electric fan works around town, on a track its a completely different issue). The clutch basket on the buells are not well made and you often hit false neutrals between higher gears, and I don't even need to comment on their gearboxes.

I think one of the biggest problems most people have with it is when people go into turns to fast and have no way of getting out of them. When you enter a turn too fast, you have to be able to break and maintain your lean through the turn. Every buell I have ridden had a horrible tendency to kick you back up out of your lean, making your turn to wide. Turning alone on the xb is hard enough when you always have to keep pushing on the inside bar to keep you leaned over, its basically impossible to stick a line through turns on the bike.

OK enough of my talking about the bike, if you think that this is the bike for you, then by all means get it, but please do research on other machines first and make an educated decision on what you want, dont just buy something because you think it is cool and the best out there, because a buell is very very far from that.

[89IROC&RS]

just to throw out, im not at all trying to down you, i know that you are very knowledgeable as to what you are talking about, as i am with the automotive feild, and i do appriciate being informed as to the possible downfalls of the bike, and definately to the situations with the swing arm and rear shock mount as it was the first i had heard about them.

as far as the problems from innovation, id think that someone as into import sport bikes as you would be praising them for making forward progress. without the types of performance innovations buell is trying to make work, you would still be riding a single cylender bycycle styled motorcycle on dirt tracks, if you were riding a bike at all. there is always the drive to make something new, to improove upon what exists. that is what drives the world of both motorcycles and automobiles.

as far as hp per rpm's, and the gearing from that, i agree, if you were building a pro-race bike, or top end rocket, that would be how you would do it. i suppose that is where our differences come from. ive always been the dukes of hazard redneck. love standing acceleration, stoplight to stoplight runs, quarter mile times. ive never condoned top end runs on the street, no place to safely do it. and im not talking about personal safty, ive never worried myself about the possiblity of becoming a greasy spot on the road somewhere, but the thought of taking an innocent family in a minivan with me, terrifies me. so whats the point of having something like a turbo hybusa capible of 200+ mph, if im never gonna use it. id rather have the low end power so that i could feel the massive acceleration and power from a dead stop. just personal taste i guess.

on the subject of gettnig the bike, i do appricate the help on the recalls and such, and i will take your advice with alot of seriousness. but i do think what it boils down to is a difference in taste. i guess growing up in a harley family, and wanting speed, leaves me with few choices, and the buell is the only one that fits the bill, even if it does wind up being the end of me. but hell man, better to die at speed, adrenaline pumping, than an old man pissing in a bedpan. ride safe man.

[speediva]

Well spoken, my friend. All it ever boils down to is that we ride.

[R1-rider]

Yes, in the end all it comes down to is riding, have fun and be safe whichever bike your leg swings over.

[89IROC&RS]

thanx guys, im sure ill be back for more advice, and perhaps some light hearted debates

[Jim Culkin]

Not to start any arguements here, everyone has an opinion, but I for 1 prefer a Harley and i'd like to post a few additions to other peoples replies. If you go to not all, but many legit 1/4 mile racing tracks, you will see mostly Harley's and if you go to round tracks mostly Jap bikes, if you are into racing then you should buy a Jap bike or a European bike, but if you want to cruise - well you would be hard pressed to beat a Harley, one thing, I did read a post here that said something about speed, well I have gotten my Harley around 140 mph, but really I mostly cruise and it is true with the turns, but the answer is the wheel base, on sport bikes you have a shorter wheel base you can actually turn the handle bars at high speed, on Harley you more or less lean, I agree with the price being outrageous and some parts being made in Japan and all, but the mystic is still there, i've rode jap bikes and european bikes, I had a mini bike as a kid and then went to suzuki, honda, yamaha, norton and harley and nothin feels like a harley, also harley bought out buell, so actually it is a harley, if you buy it in a harley shop its harley, also with the mystique come the money, if you want a harley you may spend 2 or 3 times as much as you would spend on a jap bike, well the resale value is quite high too, so if you do dish it out, expect to get it back even 10 or 20 or 30 years later, thats the thing, if you spend 15 grand on a jap bike, don't expect much in return, just look through the classifieds. But if you are into speed and like to do wheelies and burnouts and tricks, then you can't go wrong with a crotch rocket bike, one other thing though, Harleys are bottom heavy - more for cruisin - you can take both hands off the handlebars and cruise. As I said though some people prefer Honda's or Yamaha's or Suzuki's, but one thing I see more and more of is Harley look alike's, now I wonder why is that? What is that saying?

[Auto_newb]

70% of all motorcycles sold in the US are cruisers, wouldn't it be stupid if they didn't copy a bit of Harley if they were to play the market in the US?

[Z_Fanatic]

First of all, it's Japanese bikes, not Jap bikes. I feel the term "Jap" used to be derogatory. Secondly, who the hell pays $15K for a Japanese bike? A brand-new Hayabusa costs less than $10K. Secondly, sportbikes can't be used for cruising? I'll take that anyday than deafen my ears. And people who own sportbikes usually have multiple bikes. Within 5 years or so, they sell it and get a new one, or keep it and get a new one. They're so affordable, one does need to spend $30K just to keep one bike for 10 years. You also see Harley-look alikes by these companies because people have differing taste, but these bikes are much more reliable and inexpensive. As for drag VS track(twisities) argument, well the analogy goes somehing like this:

Harleys: Posing

Sportbikes: Speed

I don't believe 1/4 mile straight strip is any form of racing, just 1 guy or at most 2, trying to find out how fast they can shift and reach the other line.

First of all Japanese bikes are awsome, a hayabusa does cost 15K but in canadian funds, and its true the 1/4 M drag strip is not really a true race, it's for hic's with small weiners and big engines, heh heh, naww it's alright, but I'd take the track full of twistys anyday!

[Z_Fanatic]

Dude, he's in US, why would he be referring to Canadian currency?

i dunno i'm from canada an i didn't know he was from US sorry bout that