installing a limited slip differential for snow and ice?

[GuyWithCavalier]

An limited slip differential (LSD) is a common mod for 'drift' racing.

Is it a difficult mod to do on an ordinary car,
to give it better traction on ice and snow?

I am thinking of my GM Cavalier (FWD),
which probably has poor performance
in regard to getting stuck in snow/ice.

[oldblu65]

www.howellautomotive.com/phantomgriplimitedslipcavalier.aspx

[oldblu65]

Also - www.howellautomotive.com/chevycavalier.aspx

[GuyWithCavalier]

Originally Posted by oldblu65

www.howellautomotive.com/phantomgriplimitedslipcavalier.aspx

Wow thanks for this!

At $300 thats a lot cheaper than some units I have seen, at almost 3x that much!

Sounds like just the thing for my Canadian car.
Wish it was stock...

thanks again!

[vgames33]

Phantom Grip LSDs are a "get what you pay for" sort of unit from what I have heard about them in the past. There may be a factory optioned unit from a Z24 that you can use, or perhaps one from another GM FWD vehicle such as a Beretta or Grand AM could be used, as they probably use a different version of the same transmission.

Either way, it probably not worth the trouble to install, but I've never seen a Canadian winter. Several of my friends have owned Cavaliers and never had any trouble in the snow. Perhaps snow tires would be a better investment?

[MagicRat]

Originally Posted by vgames33

Either way, it probably not worth the trouble to install, but I've never seen a Canadian winter. Several of my friends have owned Cavaliers and never had any trouble in the snow. Perhaps snow tires would be a better investment?

Glad someone mentioned this. Toronto winters are not particularly extreme. A set of 4 dedicated snow tires is by far the best investment.

With decent snow tires the principle limitation in snow will be ground clearance. You will do fine in snow unless its so deep it gets packed underneath the car and brings you to a halt. When that happens no amount of LSD will help.

[GuyWithCavalier]

Well, I already have snowtires.

Thing is, wife often drives the car.
Now, even in Canada, there are few drivers that know anything about using the gas pedal in snow.
But I was thinking that a limited slip differential
would cover a lot of 'driver-error' when it comes to trying to get a car out of snow, or stop it spinning the wheel when stuck.

Seems the most common sight in heavy snow is people spinning tires,
and not going anywhere, while others try lamely to push them out of some low incline or snowbank problem.

That is where I imagined the limited slip differential changing a situation that looks hopeless (same wheel spinning endlessly),
to a situation where some torq goes to the other wheel,
regardless of ice or driver clumsiness.

[MagicRat]

Thank you for the additional info, Cav.

LSD's have a problem in snow. Their function makes the car less directinally controllable when the wheels start to spin, leading to a potentially serious loss of control for the novice driver.

When you are moving and step on the gas too hard, an LSD will force both tires to spin. This means you lose the ability to steer in a FWD car. If you are turning, the car will suddenly start to go in a straight line. If the road has a slope or crown on it, the car's front end will want to slide down hill, often falling to the side of the road. Torque steer will pull the car to the right, regardless.

An open diff often results in only one wheel spinning. This means some directional control is maintained, and the spinning wheel informs the driver to let off the gas.

Therefore, an open diff is safer than an LSD in the hands of the novice driver - it is more predicable and benign to drive in winter. Therefore, I suggest your wife is better-off in an open-diff car.

BTW (and I live in Toronto) those clowns stuck in the snow, spinning wheels have no snow tires. IMHO its a significant problem here, many people think they can get through the winter with all - season tires. They get stuck and/or block traffic with every snow storm.

[GuyWithCavalier]

Originally Posted by MagicRat

Thank you for the additional info, Cav.

LSD's have a problem in snow. Their function makes the car less directinally controllable when the wheels start to spin, leading to a potentially serious loss of control for the novice driver.

When you are moving and step on the gas too hard, an LSD will force both tires to spin. This means you lose the ability to steer in a FWD car. If you are turning, the car will suddenly start to go in a straight line. If the road has a slope or crown on it, the car's front end will want to slide down hill, often falling to the side of the road. Torque steer will pull the car to the right, regardless.

An open diff often results in only one wheel spinning. This means some directional control is maintained, and the spinning wheel informs the driver to let off the gas.

Therefore, an open diff is safer than an LSD in the hands of the novice driver - it is more predicable and benign to drive in winter. Therefore, I suggest your wife is better-off in an open-diff car.

BTW (and I live in Toronto) those clowns stuck in the snow, spinning wheels have no snow tires. IMHO its a significant problem here, many people think they can get through the winter with all - season tires. They get stuck and/or block traffic with every snow storm.

Thanks for this response.

In my mind, the issue of steering remains less important, except in precarious situations (high hills, near a ditch etc.).
The main issue with a stuck car isn't really steering, but getting the car moving in *any* direction.

I can see however that once a car is actually moving at a significant speed,
it then really matters whether you can steer or not (slide straight, possibly in the wrong direction).

If as you say, 9/10 stuck situations are all about snow-tires,
and not about open differentials, then I guess the limited slip
is not really any solution, (and obviously no substitute for snow-tires).

Additionally, I did not realise that FWD cars (w. LSDs) were uniquely susceptible to front-wheel sliding,
which was another unforeseen problem that I am glad you brought up and explained.

This was probably my real question,
although not well articulated.

It sounds like a limited-slip differential wont really help,
if someone is stuck even with snow-tires on.

thanks for all opinions.

[vgames33]

LSDs also make RWD cars a bit more difficult to handle for a novice. I own two 300ZXs - when turning under power, the car with an open diff will gently oversteer and make a bunch of noise when the tires break loose, but the one with a CLSD will oversteer much more rapidly and it is very easy to lose control if you don't correct right away. In a straight line launch situation, the LSD car tends to wobble back and forth right before the tires bite, where as the open car will just make noise until it hooks.