The evo8 or ls1 firebird trans am??

[StupidBrodie]

soo much BS soo little time..

1st off i hear talk about averages in 1/4 mile times when the evo has been around in the states for what a year? and the LS1 has been around a lot longer... you notice how the averages of the 1/4mile times for the EVO is going up as people learn the car here in the states they're gettin better times.. i believe the EVO was rated at what 13.7 in the 1/4 when it first came out?? hardly the case anymore...

2nd oh wow past 100 the LS1 dominates the EVO yeah this is entirely true but how often is that scenario going to be played out? and seeing how we measure everything in 1/4 mile around here i dont even think a top end contest is a factor...

3rd the EVO is not a drag car.. it just happens to be pretty damn good at it.. you talk about the LS1's high point (straight line) ill talk about the EVO's which is handling... another factor that we use to judge cars by which wins here...the EVO's handling is up there with super cars (ferraris, lambo, porsche) whos going to turn a quicker lap?

4th this is to joesph1082 with his 12's comment... it seems someone ALWAYS brings that up "well an LS1 has hit 12's.." have you seen one do it? have you seen video of a confirmed stock car doing it? i havent hell i've never even heard of someone how claimed they did it... so this obviously is FAR from the norm here, with how many cars they made im sure they're are more then a couple factory "freaks" but they dont make up the average 13.2-13.4 ls1 times by any means

so yeah am i saying that trans ams suck? hell no they're awesome but stock for stock they compete with an EVO on the straight line performance ( hell ill even give you that 80% of the time they beat EVO's) however, the more varibles you throw in there ( corners, traction issues, lap times,) the more the Trans Am slowly fades away

[camaroincal]

What if the track has long straight aways. The LS1 might beat the Evo there. Where as on a technical track the Evo will win. Not all racetracks are the same... Plus I posted something about the 1le option from the factory that really beefs up the Z28's handling. The 1le cars are pretty rare numbering only in the 100's but it is a factory option none the less...check it out.

http://search.yahoo.com/bin/search?p=1le%20camaro

[TatII]

well thats hte beauty of turbos. the engine can handle 450hp for quit a long time, but the thing is it doesn't have too. for daily cruising you set it to low boost, then when your out racing or when you encounter someone you can just simply raise the boost with a few presses of botton and then you'll be running 27psi. ( by the way thats what the stock 16G can flow up to, even though the turbo won't last very long but you can raise it to that level. but you will also run out of fuel before anything so upgraded injectors are a must ). anyways back to the subject, compared to a 450hp n/a or super charged car where it will always make that kind of power no matter what, so your either stuck with gettin horrible gas mileage, stuck on running race gas, or change your internals.

[justacruiser]

I didn't know evos had a controllable waste gate...

[flylwsi]

wow, i was off by 50hp on the rally cars.
so it's only 300 hp. which makes it even MORE impressive that they can be as fast as they are...

joseph, you sound like a hella big v8 fan, just like we're die hard evo fans...

450hp on the stock setup was referring to the stock turbo, not the full stock car.

you can do 500+ on stock internals, and it's documented.

get over it.

spend some time on an evo forum before you shoot it down.

go to www.buschurracing.com and see what they've done with their car as well... you'll be surprised...

or at least ENLIGHTENED.

i'm well aware of the capabilities of both cars.

in this case, as two overall cars (not just DRAG cars, like you keep running back to) i'm going to take the evo.

on a track with straights, there are still corners.
if you can handle better in the corners, you can keep up with faster cars. always been that way.

i've got a video of a lotus elise hanging with an f40 on a track. the f40 walks away on straights, and the lotus catches it in the corners. they turn very similar lap times, yet are 100's of hp apart... hmm...

[TatII]

well flylwsi i asked 2000LS1Z28 to join in on this discussion, since he owned both he should tell us what he thinks of both cars.

[aznxthuggie]

sorry flylwsi.. i had to make sure that u knew the real limits.. ima wrc fan.. =D

[2000LS1Z28]

Hey guys, I use to own a 2000 Z28 (Obviously LS1 powered engine), and now own a 2003 EVO (Well actually the bank owns the car, but I drive it ). The differences between the two are quite pronounced. On the LS1 powered F-Bodies side you have busloads of low end grunt. The EVO doesn't come alive until a little over 3,300 rpms. After that the little EVO literally scoots. 1/4 mile wise you'd be surprised how close the two are. If any of you go to LACR or Speedway you know how piss poor traction is. With an AWD car you don't have to worry about traction. You don't have to heat up your slicks or drag radials. You just rev the sucker up to above 4500 rpms and hear the clutch fry as you launch out of the hole. Of course it destroys clutches fast, but as anyone knows a 1-2 car lead from a dig is mentally debilitating for other drivers. Don't forget about altitude. LS1's don't function too well at tracks above sea level. My first time slip at LACR was a 14 flat 1/4 mile (That's at 2700 ft. elevation). 1/4 mile wise they are pretty much dead even IMO, in the most ideal conditions (Which you will never find at most tracks). From a roll there's no way a stock EVO is gonna hang with an LS1 (Could be the 70 whp advantage). Modding wise the 4g63 engine has set quite a few records (Below 9 sec. 1/4 mile times). Any turbocharged car is going to be able to squeeze power out of (Via boost controller, larger turbo, intercooler, etc.). Now I sold the Z28 for the EVO partially due to piston slap (It didn't have oil consumption issues, just sounded like a new age diesel engine). Well anyways, if any of you wanna run me at Speedway or LACR let me know. BTW my Z28 had quite a few mods (Still only got a 13.1 sec. 1/4 mile at LACR ). The mods I had on the Z28 were: Z06 intake manifold (2001+ had them stock), whipser lid, underhood ram air, pro 5.0 shifter, edelbrock N20 system`100 shot`, MAFT, HPP3, magnaflow muffler, exhaust cutout, and MSD wires.

[Joseph1082]

Yo, does everyone not read my posts... peple are telling me the Evo is better around turns... I ADMITTED THAT A DOZENS TIMES... And StupidBrodie says Evo's are fast and average times are going up??? It is established that LS1 is faster and more powerful, that is all I have said, and I like it better. And please dont tell me that a 450HP stock set-up evo is going to last long.

[TatII]

how long is your definition of lasting? i know a guy with a first gen AWD turbo TALON who upgraded his turbo from a 14b to a super 16G then at 180K miles he upgraded to a 20G, making over 400hp. and its been almost a year and its still running. and the DSM's 4G63 is basicaly a outdated obsolete EVO 4G63, so the EVO's 4G63 is even stronger and makes more power. ( side note don't confuse the DSM 4G63's to the evo's beacsue they are quit different. the cam sprockets are on the opposite side, and nothing from the older engine will fit on the improved one. mitsubishi stoped using those DSM 4G63's since the EVO 4 back in like 95.

[2000LS1Z28]

It is established that LS1 is faster and more powerful, that is all I have said, and I like it better. And please dont tell me that a 450HP stock set-up evo is going to last long.

It's not faster, it is qicker. Big difference. 1/4 mile wise i'd give the nod to the EVO versus my old Z28. Why, cause traction sucks on LS1 F Bodies. I consistantly ran a 2.3 sec. 60'. That sucks. Most EVO's run a 13.5 sec. 1/4 mile (The one in MT was a freak). That's identical to an SS Camaro. Mind you you are taking out alot of factors with an AWD car. No wheel hop, loss of traction, and reaction time loss due to correcting steering from excessive wheelspin.

[Joseph1082]

Ok, but I've heard of other people gettin their 60' down to 2.0 sec. AWD means better traction, more drivetrain powerloss. And if you are talking about a LS1 SS 13.5 is a little high. I mean, the LS1 needs someone who knows exactly how to handle it. And a year isn't that long I'm assuming he doesn't commute w/ a 400HP Evo. I mean, aside from car preference, let's just talk physics and engineering, imagine the added stress, i can say w/o a doubt that mitsubishi didn't design this car w/ the idea in mind to make it be able to handle that set-up as easily as stock (not the definition of economics). I am not the greatest LS1 driver but I hope to find an Evo to see what all the hype is about. I love/bought a camaro because it is the most HP this side of a Corvette. I also bought it over perhaps a v6 TT car because no matter what you say, FI is extra stress on an engine, every stroke the air pressure inside a cylinder is doubled or more (doubled at 15psi... so boost is the actual corelation factor). This is why I also point out that a 400HP stock engine 4 cyl os working so damn hard it's days are numbered, while a well-treated n/a motor can go on for a long time. When shopping for a turbo car people tend to look for low milage, Y, because of the stress.

[aznxthuggie]

i don't know why u guys think a inline 4 engine with 450+ hp will not last, i mean if u use it as a daily driver, the turbo usually doesn't kick in til 3000 rpms and you have more than enough power before the turbo spools to use in everyday driving, well imnot sure exactly when the turbo spools but my friend doesn't even need his boost unless he races, so why wont a car with 450hp last? the 450 hp isn't fully used til after 3k rpms seeeeeeee???

[Joseph1082]

You can turn the boost down to save engine life, and the fact that boost doesn't kick in til over 3K rpm brings me to another reason why I think the LS1 is better...No turbo lag, I have a steady increase in power, don't have to "wait" for it.
This kid in my town had a 500HP 1st gen DSM w/ a 20G turbo... but he had a whole rebuild. I'm looking at things from an objective scientific point of view.
The 4cyl has smaller pistons, which means more pressure (pressure is force per surface area; if force is constant, smaller pistons mean area goes down, pressure goes up), further turbo means more pressure, every 15psi doubles the pressure. You have got HALF the cylinders of a v8. The stress on each of those pistons and cylinders is enormous compared to what they were originaly engineered for.
Simple Math, at 450HP, simply the amount of WORK they have to do is almost doulbed, so whatever mitsubishi engineered as their life-span is pretty much cut in half, not even talking into account the other added stressors. It can't make more sense than this.
Import heads tell me how Supra engines, blah, blah blah, are bulletproof etc. Now let's look at another science, economics. No company is going to make some amazing bulletproof engine etc. This is not how economics work... these companies count on making a fortune for parts, even for their supercars. Remember, we are talking about STOCK, MASS-PRODUCED vehicles. There is only one type of product that is pretty much made geat, and that is consumable products, like food, toilet paper, etc. Everything else is made so that you'll need a new one later on, that is why electronics always seem to break... if they made something so amazing it lasting a lifetime the company would go bankrupt.

[flylwsi]

you're also talking about a motor DESIGNED to take tons of boost.

no company is going to make a bullet proof bottom end?
yet the supra has made up to 1000hp on stock internals?

stock mass produced vehicles, can, and do, make tons of power.

you CAN run 450hp on an evo all day, and you're not going to break. the same way you can run 500hp in a daily driven ls1 and not have an issue.

i'm going to, again, suggest you spend some more time on evolutionm.net, and then consider what you're talking about.

you can't look at something scientifically if you don't know the facts about both sides.

we're telling you the facts, and you don't want to hear them.

why would a company not build a durable bottom end? supras/skylines/wrx's/evo's all have durable bottom ends that can take a bit of power.

you have to ALSO remember that these cars are not the bread and butter for these companies, and they can afford to build them much more stout than their regular cars. you keep forgetting these things... there's more to it than what you know...