Y do people hate hondas so much....

[Prelewd]

Originally Posted by Joseph1082

I don't hate it that much, it's the dellusional assholes that I hate. I can respect true enthusists, like the one I mentioned or Erick's racing 10 sec hondas all-motor. If I had mad money to play w/ I'd probably try one for my next car... y buy another muscle car, been there, done that, still love em though. The Type R is prety good for what it is, and built up will run w/ older v8s. I told you I just can't stand the ignorant owners and their dellusions.

Neither can we man..

[Murray B.]

Originally Posted by Nettyesquivel

Tell me what is wrong with hondas.

I do not hate Honda but there are several things wrong with Honda's, japanese cars and other products, and Japan itself.

First problem is that Japanese companies grease the press. We call it bribery but they call it something else. Whatever it is it gives the consumer a distorted view of reality. What author could resist a 300% bonus for favoring one product over another similar one. Grease works to cloud our vision.

Secondly, they grease the politicians to pass favorable laws. For example the British politicians passed a law requiring all motorcyles to shift on the Japanese instead of the British side. Stupidity? ...no it was grease!

Thirldly these companies use industrial espionage on a regular basis and even have agents in competing companies. These fifth columnists cause massive damage. Remember this the next time you see a massively stupid corporate decision.

Last thing is, and this is obvious to me way up here in Canada, what does the future hold. After they have destroyed yet another one of your industries will they still be making nice to you? Japanese products are made using "just in time" production. That can only work long term with "just in time" consumption. They can only ensure that with legistation. Very soon you will have to replace your car with a new one ever four years because anything older will not pass inspection.

The great mystery to me is why so many people in North America are so trusting of companies that come from a country that we were at war with only a few decades ago. Is there any chance that all has not been forgiven?

Think about it.

[TankMMC]

Originally Posted by Murray B.

Last thing is, and this is obvious to me way up here in Canada, what does the future hold. After they have destroyed yet another one of your industries will they still be making nice to you? Japanese products are made using "just in time" production. That can only work long term with "just in time" consumption. They can only insure that with legistation. Very soon you will have to replace your car with a new one ever four years because anything older will not pass inspection.

what do you mean by "just in time" production? japan makes arguably the world's most reliable cars. My very good friend here does vehicle testing for the past 7 months - about 20 cars a day and he has NEVER failed a japanese car newer than 1999. Seeing as hes only had his WOF license for a short while and is paranoid of losing it, he follows the (reasonably strict) rules religiously. He has however, failed more than their fair share of Ford Mondeo, Falcon, Holden Commodore etc...The whole reason why the Japanese are getting more popular is because of their price/quality...maybe the other manufacturers should follow suit, before its too late

[2strokebloke]

"just in time" is an efficient means of production, that gets rid of time and space wasting warehouses - parts arrive where they need to be "just in time" instead of waiting around in warehouses. Obviously, MB has no idea what this system is because of the way he refers to it, and the ideas he holds about it.
Secondly, the Japanese government ENCOURAGES the Japanese people to buy foreign products, especially products from America.
Thirdly, all companies keep an eye on what their competitors are doing! To not do so would be plain stupid! All corporations do it, not just the Japanese - there are some major misconceptions being passed around here.
I may also add, that many Japanese companies operate on principles invented by an American... Edward Demming. The Japanese, eager to rebuild their industry and economy in the 1950s adopted his ideas - the American companies who were having a fine time, saw no reason to adopt his ideas for better corporate management, a decision they began to regret much later. Ford even had Mr. Demming come in to give them advice, he left frustrated because they didn't really want to change, so he left... and the Japanese companies continue to prosper...

[Prelewd]

Originally Posted by 2strokebloke

"just in time" is an efficient means of production, that gets rid of time and space wasting warehouses - parts arrive where they need to be "just in time" instead of waiting around in warehouses. Obviously, MB has no idea what this system is because of the way he refers to it, and the ideas he holds about it.
Secondly, the Japanese government ENCOURAGES the Japanese people to buy foreign products, especially products from America.
Thirdly, all companies keep an eye on what their competitors are doing! To not do so would be plain stupid! All corporations do it, not just the Japanese - there are some major misconceptions being passed around here.
I may also add, that many Japanese companies operate on principles invented by an American... Edward Demming. The Japanese, eager to rebuild their industry and economy in the 1950s adopted his ideas - the American companies who were having a fine time, saw no reason to adopt his ideas for better corporate management, a decision they began to regret much later. Ford even had Mr. Demming come in to give them advice, he left frustrated because they didn't really want to change, so he left... and the Japanese companies continue to prosper...

I'd just like to add that "just in time" production cuts overhead. So does Demmings TQM that 2strokebloke mentioned, in that it effectively reduces the number of recalls and, in turn, saves the consumer time and money. There's a reason for japanese reliability, and it starts with a bunch of letters: TQM, SPC, QC, JIT just to name a few.

[Murray B.]

There is not going to be much savings with "just in time" if the unsold assembled automobiles must be kept in inventory. Assembled, the parts actually occupy a larger volume. This is what I meant originally, sorry for any confusion.

Japan is going to be nice to you only until they destroy the local industry. Then you will pay through the nose for your cars.

Already Toyota is the #1 automaker in the world by market value and Chrysler has been gobbled up by a German company. The other two probably only have a few years left. Who the heck wants a car that needs major work at 50,000 miles. Sadly, these are only the end of a long list of industries that have already been destroyed by the Axis powers since the war. These clandestine, conspiratorial industrial attacks must be stopped while there is still something left of America's main industry.

Step #1. Buy an American brand even if you know they are not better.

Step #2. Get politically smart and start asking the hard questions. If something looks stupid then you have almost certainly found corruption. Stupid people rarely come into positions of power, but smart con artists often fake stupidity.

There you have it. A simple two step process that you can do or have your economy die. The choice is yours.

[D[X]P]

I will not buy an american car(unless muscle). It is proven that american cars are sucky compared to european and japanese.

[2strokebloke]

I'm not going to "buy American" just because it's not as good as what other countries make. That's silly, and stupid. It's your money, not a corporations, you might as well get the best you can for your money, instead of settling for something less, just because Nostalgia clouds your judgement.
The American companies are where they are now, because of their own mistakes. It's easy to blame others who do good for making you look bad, but the truth is, way back when the seeds for failure were planted, the companies were set on their paths because management reasoned that Americans would buy American products, even if the quality and reliability wasn't so good, because American consumers were more interested in good looks than they were in quality. That the ugly little VW was doing so well should have told them otherwise, but by the time the Japanese really started doing good, it was getting late to make changes - and many still held the same beliefs that they did in 50's and 60's. It's their own fault, and I'm not going to let them cry on my shoulder.

[publicenemy137]

Originally Posted by Murray B.

There is not going to be much savings with "just in time" if the unsold assembled automobiles must be kept in inventory. Assembled, the parts actually occupy a larger volume. This is what I meant originally, sorry for any confusion.

Japan is going to be nice to you only until they destroy the local industry. Then you will pay through the nose for your cars.

Already Toyota is the #1 automaker in the world by market value and Chrysler has been gobbled up by a German company. The other two probably only have a few years left. Who the heck wants a car that needs major work at 50,000 miles. Sadly, these are only the end of a long list of industries that have already been destroyed by the Axis powers since the war. These clandestine, conspiratorial industrial attacks must be stopped while there is still something left of America's main industry.

Step #1. Buy an American brand even if you know they are not better.

Step #2. Get politically smart and start asking the hard questions. If something looks stupid then you have almost certainly found corruption. Stupid people rarely come into positions of power, but smart con artists often fake stupidity.

There you have it. A simple two step process that you can do or have your economy die. The choice is yours.

GM and ford are still the biggest automakers in the world, bigger than any japanese company. and buying japanese cars is still good for american economy, reason is b/c japanese cars are being built here and puts american workers at work. Like 2strokebloke said, it's your money, don't let marketing or corporate loyalty cloud your judgement. I only buy quality stuff, therefore, i buy japanese makes.

[Joseph1082]

I was confused about that statement about Toyota, as far as I know, by sheer Volume, GM is the largest Corporation in the World... period. No danger for them there.
I like American sports cars better, so I guess I'd buy them, as for other cars, american sedans etc are looking stupider and stupider.
On the topic on economics, the issue is two-fold.
The cars are built here in North America (some in Canada, some Mexico), but since they are produced by a Japanese company, the money goes back to Japan, it contributes to Japan's GNP, not ours, and adds to our negative balance of payments.

[Murray B.]

Originally Posted by Joseph1082

I was confused about that statement about Toyota, as far as I know, by sheer Volume, GM is the largest Corporation in the World... period.

Please let me clarify my statement. Thirty years ago GM was the world's largest automaker by all measures, volume, market value and profits. Today it is only the largest by volume with Toyota having a higher market value and better profits. GM is still strong in the low end with but that will soon change. Too much low-priced Detroit Iron now need major (>$500) repairs at 50 or 60 thousand miles. The U.S. automakers have been unsuccesful in convincing their customers that this is "normal wear and tear" and they are switching to other brands.

My sweetie who comes from an all Ford family has a sweet little 1995 Mystique. It has only 60,000 miles and was properly cared for. Neverthess it has cost, in addition to normal service fees, $1200 for repairs that are supposedly "normal wear and tear". For the first time in her life she is now looking at Toyotas.

I'm sorry but I don't see GM being #1 in anything five or ten years from now. This is sad because I come from an all GM family. My first car was a '62 Parisienne and my favorite car was a '69 Wildcat. Today I own a '97 Grand Am but am worried because it made the list of the world's worst cars. Apparently it has all the faults of a Lada or a Hyundai Pony but cost three times as much. This is not how GM got to be #1 and I expect that multi-billion dollar bailouts will soon follow unless they sell it off to foreigners.

[Joseph1082]

Ok, what does it mean that Toyota has Higher Market Value??? And GM will always be the largest due to sheer size, no company is larger.

[Prelewd]

I think he means higher market value per unit. The depreciation isn't as high in Toyotas as it is in GMs.

Why Murray is telling us to buy GM is beyond me, especially after he clarified why most of us do not purchase GM. All they have to do, and they are working on this, is build their cars better. Take a note from the Japanese automakers.

The repair costs is so high because they do not design their cars to be worked on. Anybody who has torn apart a Honda and torn apart any american car knows what I'm talking about. Hondas are FAR easier to take apart and put back together.

[Murray B.]

Originally Posted by Joseph1082

Ok, what does it mean that Toyota has Higher Market Value??? And GM will always be the largest due to sheer size, no company is larger.

There are five measures commonly used to rank companies; sales, profits, assets, market value, and sometimes, the number of employees.

As I understand it the market value of a company is the total of the shares/debentures times their dollar value. An accountant or investment advisor would know more about it than I do.

At one time GM was #1 regardless of the criteria used to rank it. That is no longer true.

Why buy American when the cars are so lousy? Simply, because the banks do not have your money. They invested 90% of it in "blue chip" stocks like GM and IBM. If everyone buys foreign then the companies will collapse and the banks will put up signs saying something like "Closed - never to reopen" just like they did 70 years or so ago.

Everything in North America is interconnected and the real cost of buying foreign is much higher than you think.

P.S. My sweetie has just purchased a Ford Windstar. Guess we have just gotten too old to change our ways.

[integra818]

Originally Posted by Prelewd

Hondas are FAR easier to take apart and put back together.

I agree.It takes no more than 30 minutes to change a Civic radiator, it took me and another friend 2 hours to change the radiator on a Ford Focus.