Pagani Zonda C12-s vs. Saleen S7 vs. Mclaren F1 LM vs. Lamborghini Diablo SE30 Jota

[Chris]

Yes, the S2000 is good. BUT there is no torque below 5000rpm, and even then there isn't much (153 lb-ft. Ha!) A Z06 has 385 lb-ft at way lower than that.
I agree that numbers aren't everything. A Supra gets great numbers, but at a track, it sucks. I have never driven either, though, so I can't argue with that.
And old corvettes weren't muscle cars. Tehy handled way better than that, but not as good as European cars, granted. The after 1973 to ZR1 vettes suck, IMO.
I would love either an S2000. As long as you drive it fast sometimes.
But man, I would have got the Z06 (if I had the money).

PS, whats your job? and age?

LM all the way

[Racer 20]

I agree. It has to be reved all the way to 9000 rpm just to preform (or atleast try to) like Honda's NSX. With the ZO6 you just point and shoot. You see an opening, floor it and your there. It's a much different story with the S2000. BUt if your happy with it so be it! They are fun little 4 bangers.

[Z06Lover]

Originally posted by Chris
Yes, the S2000 is good. BUT there is no torque below 5000rpm, and even then there isn't much (153 lb-ft. Ha!) A Z06 has 385 lb-ft at way lower than that.
I agree that numbers aren't everything. A Supra gets great numbers, but at a track, it sucks. I have never driven either, though, so I can't argue with that.
And old corvettes weren't muscle cars. Tehy handled way better than that, but not as good as European cars, granted. The after 1973 to ZR1 vettes suck, IMO.
I would love either an S2000. As long as you drive it fast sometimes.
But man, I would have got the Z06 (if I had the money).

PS, whats your job? and age?

LM all the way

24, computer engineer. I drive it fast all the time. i have a bunch of twistie assed roads behind my place...crazy roads..lots of fun. The Z06 is a fast car. It is faster then my s2000..now contest. The s2000 has a much, much better steering feel. It is a lighter smaller car...this makes a huge difference...in the way it feels when you are going fast. The steering in the Z06 feels mushy in comparison. It has more body roll. This is one of the big complaints and why the slalom numbers aren't higher. My car actually has a stiffer chassis, but a smoother softer ride..if you couple this with the fact that it is a convertible....that is the amazing thing about the S2000. Compare it against the C5 convertible it costs 16k less and is has 95% of the accel and top speed performance and is much faster through twisty corners.

I never really wanted a convertible, but i really like it now. The chassis is super impressive...much more so then the Z06, Z3, Boxster or any other car I test drove (Audi *cough* TT *sucks!!* *cough ). The guy who talked me into thest driving the S2000 was a guy who owned a Z06 for about 6 months.. i had your same reaction..until I drove it. The S2000 has low torque, but way it is geared really helps out. It does a great job magnifing the torque to the back tires. The S2000 will spin its tires like crazy, will chirp on 1-2 second shift (40 mph) and 2-3 shift (65mph)...so it is not gutless. From 45-60 and 60-90 is just about as fast as a C5..that is the amazing thing about it...drag racing..is not is forte, but high speed accel is....it is very fast. You just have to have it in the right gear..you have to know how to drive it...it takes some getting used to and some learning and skill, but that is rewarding..it is the most fun car I have ever drove..no question.

no old corvettes were good. when the first came out..top notch..then the became crap until the ZR1..pretty much..IMO anyway. I really do like the C5, but it is a reliability night mare compared to the S2000, much bigger car, bad feel in the steering wheel, and just much more expsenvie to own. Buying the S2000 was simple for me...the Z06 would have been more of a crunch...i don't need to be worrying about making the payments... I saved 350/month...it was/is worth it to me. I couldn't be happier.
For example my tires 148 fronts 168 rears..tires on the z06 were closer to 250 front and 300+ rear..that is a big difference...and that is just one example. The s2000 is a fast enough car for me right now..and for the money...you can't beat it.

PS: In japan they sell a kit of the S2000, 450 HP at the wheels, turbo system. 0-60 est. 3.75 secs!! in a convertible!! maybe that will be the next purchase...hehehe..

PSS: best shifter in any car made...23 mm throws..nothing on the road like it... if you ever get a chance...sit in one..and play with the gear box...then try shifting any other car on the planet...you will hate all other 6-speeds....this is no joke..try it.

[Z06Lover]

Originally posted by Racer 20
I agree. It has to be reved all the way to 9000 rpm just to preform (or atleast try to) like Honda's NSX. With the ZO6 you just point and shoot. You see an opening, floor it and your there. It's a much different story with the S2000. BUt if your happy with it so be it! They are fun little 4 bangers.

try to perform...actually at speed, like say 40-65...the S2000 is as fast or faster then the normal c5. If you watch it go from 0-60...it has issues at the start...you wanna now how you launch a S2000?
7krpm, drop the clutch..wheel spin to 9k, all the way through first, then second gear, more wheel spin, finally to 60. About 1- 1.5 secs of that 0-60 run is wheel spin and very little traction....so you figure out how fast it is if it is running low 5's 0-60.

The car actually has about 85% of it's torque at 4k rpms, that means is has about 60% of it's rpm range to run in with at least 80% of the available torque. This means the HP curve is virtually linear. HP = torque *(rpm/5250) so if the torque is virtually flat, the HP is completely linear....and it is all the way to 9k. so that is a great torque vs HP curve...almost perfect.

The Z06 does not point and shoot like the S2000. true, it accel hard in any gear...or feels like it does, cuz they engine sounds loud, but the steering makes it feel very bad when pointing and shooting. the s2000 makes you learn how to drive..including shifting down, matching revs and heel toe downshifting. It is a true drivers car with much much better feel then the Z06....I should know..i've driven both.....have you? or are you just quoting a magazine to me??

Also, my friend owns a NSX and you couldn't be more wrong about it also....it is very torquey and drives much more like a corvette in terms of engine response then you give it credit for...but again..i'm guessing you have never driven one.

so you drive it in the high rpm range? so what?? that is the way it is made to be driven...F1 cars routinely get to 15k rpms...so what? that is how you get high HP out of small engines?? i dont' see your point. It is a different way to come at the same problem of going faster. As long as the time you have at most of your torque and HP is the same (about 5k rpm's for the S2000 4k-9k about 80% of available torque at 4k). You know that europe and other foreign countries think it so funny how we all drive heavy ass monster engine cars. You all need to leave the corvette alone and go drive a small, light, high revving car...you will never go back. I wish the elise would come here.

Why do you think the best handling cars in the world have always been made in europe, they have tight, small twisty roads. our love lust with large displacement, SUV's, trucks and cars is very lame. The S2000 is a shot by japan at the small, light, quick, awesome handling genre that is dominated by europe. There are about 30 small auto manufactures in europe that make light, small, fast cars ...at least 200hp per ton..i would love to see caterham's, s2000s, the elise and others on the road instead of huge ugly assed, bad handling american boats, SUV's and trucks. most of the vehicles are not even road worthy. over 70% of all cars in america are sold as autos!!! so who do you think really understands what makes a fun driveable car more.... americans or europeans.... just watch a nascar race sometime...and then watch a F1 race....it's pathetic.

[Chris]

Several things.NASCAR madates that the cars be that way.
F1 engines go to 19000(!) rpm.
For your S2000, Comptech has a blower for it. With 6psi, it adds 100 hp. It costs $4895. I would get it. Another (40,50?) pounds, and 100 hp, it is well worth it. Nothing else you can do can really make it better, it is so good already.
I have sat in the S2000. Yes, I liked the shifter alot. Never been in a C5 vette. Yes, I am quoting magazines. And my tastes are shifting from big cars to small, cool ones.
I love teh vette though. It is supposed to belie its size, and is a world class car. It is mega-fast, and although not as good handling as the S2000. On some tracks, the Honda would win, on others, a vette.
I didn't know the torque curve was flat, that is good. But it still lacks torque, but it is apparently really fun when you drive it right (like you apparantly do ).

Oh, I also like computers, and it is my biggest career choice right now (I plan to be the next Bill GAtes, the worlds first gazillionaire!)

[Z06Lover]

Originally posted by Chris
Several things.NASCAR madates that the cars be that way.
F1 engines go to 19000(!) rpm.
For your S2000, Comptech has a blower for it. With 6psi, it adds 100 hp. It costs $4895. I would get it. Another (40,50?) pounds, and 100 hp, it is well worth it. Nothing else you can do can really make it better, it is so good already.
I have sat in the S2000. Yes, I liked the shifter alot. Never been in a C5 vette. Yes, I am quoting magazines. And my tastes are shifting from big cars to small, cool ones.
I love teh vette though. It is supposed to belie its size, and is a world class car. It is mega-fast, and although not as good handling as the S2000. On some tracks, the Honda would win, on others, a vette.
I didn't know the torque curve was flat, that is good. But it still lacks torque, but it is apparently really fun when you drive it right (like you apparantly do ).

Oh, I also like computers, and it is my biggest career choice right now (I plan to be the next Bill GAtes, the worlds first gazillionaire!)

I know Nascar mandates the cars be like that.... that was my point. American's fav. racing are cars like that and oval tracks. While, the rest of the world prefers F1 on twisty road courses...through actual city streets...It just kinda gives a good view of many american's take...on what a car should be like.

15k rpm's 19k rpm...alright...i was just saying....fast!!
yeah the comptech one...is kinda a pain. it has some issues. i think i'm gonna wait. the s2000 can still out drive me in the stock form. the car is really well balanced. i would hate to ruin the way it drives by just slapping in more HP. The comptech blower doesn't really work where the S2000 needs the HP. It doesn't turn on till vtec, so it gives no low end torque which is what the S2000 needs more of. I wish Jackson racing would come out with one...they make better products...IMO. Also, the next itteration of the comptech one is supposed to go up to 450HP....so maybe that one will be good!! That is around 10PSI, but in an engine that is already running 11:1 compression...heheh

The c5 and the Z06 are both gonna beat the S2000 on most tracks...pretty much the auto-x is where the s2000 is gonna take a vette. The vette has great limits, just doesnt' communicate them well.

Good luck with the Gazillionaire thing...if you make it.....buy me a LM!!!

[Z06Lover]

anyone checked out the redesign for the NSX in 2003? not the one that automobile mag showed, but the 350 HP, mid-engine, v8 version?? might break under the 60k mark. what i wouldn't give for a 450HP 2003 mid-engine Z06...that will never happen.

[Lizard King]

Originally posted by Z06Lover
what i wouldn't give for a 450HP 2003 mid-engine Z06...that will never happen.

I'm glad of that. I wouldn't want to see the Vette changed so much as to alter the whole engine placement. Gearbox in the rear was a good move and has resulted in 50/50 distribution, or near enough.

Don't get me started on F1, that it the most boring form of motorsport.

You say America's facination with large displacement engines is lame. Even Europeans know that for power large displacement is the way to fo. Hence supercars such as the McLaren F1 and Diablo having large displacement engines.

American V8s are often lighter, and mostly smaller than turbo engines from Japan.

[Chris]

I wouldnt want 10psi in with an 11:1 compression. BOOM! hehe.
Just get the blower, it will be much faster.
And tehy tried to boost low-end power, and failed, so they went for peak performance.

I agree, American cars handle well, but dont fell very good.

[Z06Lover]

Originally posted by Chris
I wouldnt want 10psi in with an 11:1 compression. BOOM! hehe.
Just get the blower, it will be much faster.
And tehy tried to boost low-end power, and failed, so they went for peak performance.

I agree, American cars handle well, but dont fell very good.

it is still pretty fast for me...like i said...as of now..i can still out drive me....i need to get it on a track and learn its limits better...then maybe get a blower.

a company in japan sells a kit with over 600+HP for the S2000. it is a turbo kit, intake, exhaust, headers, and that's about it..no engine reinforcements...of course you would need new clutch and probably a gear box also. the engine is reinforced with carbon fiber so it is pretty stout..all moving parts are forged...anyway, that kind of performance and spending are a ways off...i'll let you know what i do...and how it turns out!!

[Chris]

I am an accekeration junkie. But then, currently I want a mini, or a Fiat 500, or a Triumph Spitfire Mk. III. Not exactly speed freak cars. I want them because they are FUN FUN FUN!
Which is what I want in a car, and what you seem to want too, which is good.

But I would get the blower fairly soon, and nothing incredible, you don't want to blow the engine with too much power. And 600hp from 2 liters is EXTEREME!!! Especially since you drive alot. From what I know, I would stick with Comptech. Bu tI'm not you.

Yes, please keep us posted. We will envy you for whatever you get. And with only 5 LM's, I will have to get you a plaine-jane F1. Sorry

[Chris]

Shoulda been ACCLERATION

[Chris]

shoulda been ACCELERATION

[danmangt40]

glad I didn't get involved in this one. Mac is my choice...

[Chris]

Be happy you didn't get involved. Once you get into it, you cant get out. Kinda like the mob....