very perplexed on this one

[jalero]

Day 1: - Son calls me and tells me the 01 Alero (2.4L, 100k miles) is up on ramps in driveway.
- Tells me he was driving on I-State when a dump truck drops a piece of concrete onto roadway, rolls into his lane and bangs under car a couple of times.
- No problems for 25 miles of start / stop driving. Same day. - Arrives home and puts Alero on ramps to check for damage.
- No damage seen. Goes to start car. Turns over normal but does not start.
- Son pushes car off ramps.
- I arrive a couple of hours later to asess the situation.
- Same. No start. Notice 'security' light remains on when the ignition remains in the 'on/run' position.
- (I know now that is normal) I do the 10-15 min. 'key on' thing. No change.

Day 2:
- Leave for work and decide to give it a try. Battery completely dead.
- Key was pulled before fully in 'off' position. ie: acc was on.
- Return home from work. Throw jumpers onto Alero and let a running vehicle charge it for an hour.
- Give it a try. No go. Bang on fuel tank a couple of times with hammer. No go.
- Son comes home. We spray starting fluid into removed air filter cover. Engine runs.
- Suspect Fuel pump. All fuses, relays etc. check good.

Day 3:
- We jack up rear. Put stands under. Was going to check for voltage going to fuel pump harness.
- I climb under, pull the pump harness from the connector to inspect. All looks good.
- No damage from concrete other than small ding in exhaust pipe.
- Tell son to try to start while I bang the tank a couple of times.
- Car starts immediately. I did NOT bang the tank.
- He shuts of engine. He gets out, I climb out, both with a WTF look on face.
- I get in and start, runs, revs normally.
- Notice 'security' light is on while running. NOT flashing.
- Just for fun, did the 10-15 minute thing.
- Restart and runs normal. NO 'security' light.

To sum things up:
Kid runs over concrete chunk
Drives up ramps
Car won't start
Jack up rear
Car starts
weird 'security' light thing ?

Ideas much appreciated !

thanks, jack

ps: codes:
EVAP: (pending, been there forever)
P0300: seen this before after a 'hic-cup'

--------------- UPDATE ------------
Day 4
- Turns over today, no start !
and
- Noticed that steering wheel does NOT lock with key removed.


-------------- UPDATE 2 -------------
Day 5
- took some voltage measurements at fuel pump harness connectors
didn't have pin-outs but:
incoming voltages i saw made sense. 5 / 12
on the pump side of things lowest ohm reading was 315 Ω
didn't hear pump upon 'key to on'
hammer against tank on start attempt, engine started

- So, the motor in pump is shot. apparently
I'm planning on using a Delco 'rebuild kit'

pros / cons appreciated

Also, if anyone knows of another mechanical item within the pump module that may cause these symptoms, I would appreciate hearing of them.

thanks to all who responded

jack

[harleyguy]

How full was the gas maybe when he was on the ramps he ran the pump dry. I would still think it should have primed and started after so maybe the pump is starting to get weak. As for security light that might just been since the battery went dead.


But that is all just my best guess.

[jalero]

thanks harley,

tank was at 7/8th

maybe on the security light ?

[Tech II]

You said the Security light was on when running?

If so, that could be the problem....

[jalero]

Originally Posted by Tech II

You said the Security light was on when running?

If so, that could be the problem....

Tech, what would be the problem then ?

[MikeCStig]

When the car was running and the security light was on, did you try to put it in gear? Sometimes security systems like that lock the car in park (assuming it's an automatic.) If you did try and it was stuck in park, that may indicate a problem with the security system.
If something like this happens again, look into that. If not, congratulations! You've accidentally solved the problem!

[jalero]

Originally Posted by MikeCStig

When the car was running and the security light was on, did you try to put it in gear? Sometimes security systems like that lock the car in park (assuming it's an automatic.) If you did try and it was stuck in park, that may indicate a problem with the security system.
If something like this happens again, look into that. If not, congratulations! You've accidentally solved the problem!

Did not put car into gear (auto).

As I understand, if the 'security' light is on, 'passlock' is disabled. ie: no restriction on driving. As stated above, the dead battery probably caused the passlock system to reset.

Also, as I understand it, when passlock is ENABLED, it disables the injectors from firing.

and, I have a new update in OP

[MikeCStig]

Ok, unless your security light is somehow lying to you, or your fuel system has some kind of blockage or failure, I'm stumped.

[jalero]

Originally Posted by MikeCStig

Ok, unless your security light is somehow lying to you, or your fuel system has some kind of blockage or failure, I'm stumped.

hi mike,
there IS some type of failure in the fuel delivery system.

I'm now back to testing voltage to the pump harness. Tomorrow.

Need to look at injectors as well.

Also, as I understand, there is a brief 'charge up' of the fuel system when the key goes to 'on'. Should be able to hear the pump while near the tank.

[MikeCStig]

Originally Posted by jalero

Also, as I understand, there is a brief 'charge up' of the fuel system when the key goes to 'on'. Should be able to hear the pump while near the tank.

Yes, that's a pretty well known GM trait. When you turn on the key (before you start the engine) you can hear the fuel pump priming for about 3 seconds. In some models you don't even have to be near the tank. I had a roommate with a '97 Blazer (4.3 vortec) you could hear the fuel pump priming from inside the truck. Listen for that sound, because if that doesn't happen, you can narrow it down to the fuel pump and the electrical connections to it.

[Tech II]

There could be a problem with the Security system, most likely the PassLock sensor......

Could be an intermittent problem....

When the car cranks over, but doesn't fire, have a can of carb cleaner handy....spray into intake...if it starts and runs as long as you spray, and dies when you stop spraying, then it's a fuel delivery problem....either no pressure(possible fuel pump), or the injectors are not firing(Security problem)....

One thing, the vehicle should be scanned for codes...unfortunately, most code readers and scan tools, can only read "P" codes...they can't read "B" codes.....if there is a security problem, more often than not, a B2958 or B2960 is set, causing the injectors to be disabled.....

The fact that the car started, and the SECURITY light was on, means the problem was not in effect during the start...it happened after the car started....when that happens, the car ran in sort of a default mode....

So your best bet is to go to some place, that can scan "B" codes for you....

[jalero]

Hello TechII, thanks for the additional reply.

All of the below has been addressed by the above.

The problem has been determined

thanks, jack

Originally Posted by Tech II

There could be a problem with the Security system, most likely the PassLock sensor......

Could be an intermittent problem....

When the car cranks over, but doesn't fire, have a can of carb cleaner handy....spray into intake...if it starts and runs as long as you spray, and dies when you stop spraying, then it's a fuel delivery problem....either no pressure(possible fuel pump), or the injectors are not firing(Security problem)....

One thing, the vehicle should be scanned for codes...unfortunately, most code readers and scan tools, can only read "P" codes...they can't read "B" codes.....if there is a security problem, more often than not, a B2958 or B2960 is set, causing the injectors to be disabled.....

The fact that the car started, and the SECURITY light was on, means the problem was not in effect during the start...it happened after the car started....when that happens, the car ran in sort of a default mode....

So your best bet is to go to some place, that can scan "B" codes for you....