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Old 09-24-2008, 06:20 PM   #46
Cybrjaz
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Re: no bus and breaking down in '99 Durango

OK - now I'm ticked . . . see post above for issues . . . replaced plugs, wires, cap, and rotor . . . replaced Camshaft Position Sensor . . . replaced Crackshaft Position Sensor (again - what a pain in the butt!!!) . . . checked battery, connections, and Alternator . . . replaced PCM . . . total cost around $425.00 . . . STILL HAS SAME PROBLEM!!!!

Will someone please tell me what to do next???

Besides blow it the ____ up!!!!
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Old 09-29-2008, 02:25 PM   #47
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Re: no bus and breaking down in '99 Durango

OK People - Listen Up - FINALLY got the stupid Durango running - please make a note and DO NOT REPEAT MY MISTAKES.

First off - the ONLY thing wrong with my truck was the CAMSHAFT POSITION SENSOR.

All of the other parts - Crankshaft Position Sensor, PCM, etc., were not necessary replacements . . . why???

Because what no one tells you is that if you replace EITHER the Camshaft Position Sensor OR the Crankshaft Position Sensor then you have to reset your PCM to FACTORY DEFAULTS and RELEARN the PCM to your particular vehicle's setup. The Camshaft PS and the Crankshaft PS are out of sync when you replace one or the other and when that happens the PCM will TEMPORARILY reset it's self to factory defaults but then revert to the previous settings thereby causing the vehicle to act all retarded again.

A few side notes - 1) Don't ask me how to reset the computer because I have no idea. I bought a new one and that didn't work either and I guess that SHOULD'VE already been reset - but whatever. I had a local mechanic look at it after I was at my complete wits end and wanted to use the stupid truck for AR-15 target practice. 2) The Crankshaft Position Sensor either WORKS or it DOESN'T. There is no "in between" or "intermittent" fault with this sensor. If you have an intermittent problem the Crankshaft Position Sensor is not the problem. 3) NEVER, NEVER, NEVER, EVER . . . move the Distributor. Apparently these stupid things are lined up just so and if you move them the Camshaft Position Sensor won't work right - stupid, I know. 4) Once you reset the PCM to factory - it will run crappy - not crappy as in not working but crappy as in a little higher RPM and a little lower MPG. This will level off as the vehicle relearns it's self and settles down - usually within 50 to 100 miles.

I REALLY REALLY REALLY hope this helps someone else because - Lord knows, I could've used this info 3 weeks and $450.00 ago. Thanks for all those that did help and I'm sure I'll be back.

Last edited by Cybrjaz; 09-30-2008 at 07:48 AM.
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Old 10-05-2008, 02:43 PM   #48
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Re: no bus and breaking down in '99 Durango

one thing to check is the ground wires next to the ac comp. looking under the hood left of the ac comp. 2 black wires one connector small wire not making connection would now start unless code reader was hooked up untill i hooked the ground back up still have the no bus and the idle air control system code still checking into it
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Old 12-04-2008, 07:28 AM   #49
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Re: no bus and breaking down in '99 Durango

In my case you are exactly right with your description of the problem. My 2000 Durango was having this problem two years ago. After replacing the PCM we disassembled the old one, scraped out all the muck, and examined the connector pins under a magnifier. Sloppy soldering... ring cracks existed around several of the pins with one almost completely around the middle 5v pin that others here have traced the problem to. Probably the heat caused the board to warp and break contact at the crack.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Benzman
The problem is actually where the connectors solder to the circuit board. And yes, I attempted repairing and just wound up destroying the surface mount components on the board. The problem is that they fill the entire module with muck that is impossible to remove.
You'll have to replace the entire module. Look at my previous post, there are some modifications you can do to keep the module running cooler.
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Old 12-12-2008, 10:06 PM   #50
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Re: no bus and breaking down in '99 Durango

i have a 1999 dodge durango and the check engine light went on. the odtemter stop working and when i hooked it up to the tester it told me that the vehicle speed sensor wasn't working. so i replaced the sensor and the promblem are still there so what could be the promblem and also how do I reset the vehicles computer?
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Old 01-08-2009, 08:04 AM   #51
mzdeal
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Re: no bus and breaking down in '99 Durango

I'm betting Mohawk55a has found the most common root cause. Another blogger engineer reported it was an internal manufacturing defect. All the other bloggers seem to be guessing (here and everywhere).

My "no bus" problem appeared 8/07 less than a month after I installed shorty headers and a 180 T-stat, both of which help to heat up the engine compartment. Problem appears when hot and is affected by wiggling connectors.

I didn't fix mine, since I wasn't sure what to spend precious $ on. I did waste time though re-soldering all my connector females. So I rigged a forced air cooling fan/duct/enclosure for the PCM; bathing it in outside ambient air. This did the trick, except when I stop the engine the fan stops and the PCM starts heating up from residual heat. If I soon again start up, then I might see the problem appear.

Question for Mohawk: Do you think I could re-solder my pins without undue trouble, and get the PCM back up? Would I have to pull the board out of the case? Or could I do the job from the front? I'd like to fix this darn problem once and for all, but I surely am not gonna buy a new computer because of a stupid lousy solder joint!
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Old 01-21-2009, 05:45 AM   #52
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Re: no bus and breaking down in '99 Durango

mzdeal,

The problem would be getting through the potting goo that they fill the inside of the PCM case with. If you or someone else knows an effective way of removing enough of that to work with, it should be no problem. We found the goo to be very stubborn and frustrating... since I already purchased and installed a refurbished PCM myself, I wrote off the old one and dug out the board without regard for putting it back together again. I don't think I have the patience to consider it "undue trouble".


Quote:
Originally Posted by mzdeal
I'm betting Mohawk55a has found the most common root cause. Another blogger engineer reported it was an internal manufacturing defect. All the other bloggers seem to be guessing (here and everywhere).

My "no bus" problem appeared 8/07 less than a month after I installed shorty headers and a 180 T-stat, both of which help to heat up the engine compartment. Problem appears when hot and is affected by wiggling connectors.

I didn't fix mine, since I wasn't sure what to spend precious $ on. I did waste time though re-soldering all my connector females. So I rigged a forced air cooling fan/duct/enclosure for the PCM; bathing it in outside ambient air. This did the trick, except when I stop the engine the fan stops and the PCM starts heating up from residual heat. If I soon again start up, then I might see the problem appear.

Question for Mohawk: Do you think I could re-solder my pins without undue trouble, and get the PCM back up? Would I have to pull the board out of the case? Or could I do the job from the front? I'd like to fix this darn problem once and for all, but I surely am not gonna buy a new computer because of a stupid lousy solder joint!
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Old 01-21-2009, 10:00 AM   #53
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Re: no bus and breaking down in '99 Durango

I suppose its worth another look. I pulled the case apart once before, but went no further once I saw that goop. If you can remember, are the pins soldered on the "top side" (cover side) or the "back side" (toward the cast casing)?

It would be a lot easier if I don't have to pull the whole board out of the goop. If I could just dig out enough goop from the front to get in there and work the joints, that would be well worth a morning try.

Pulling the whole thing out to get to the back seems like trouble. Might be easier just to cut an access whole out of the back, if possible.

In my case, I'll have to be careful so as not to damage anything.

Milt
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Old 03-02-2009, 09:47 PM   #54
sheltonclan
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Re: no bus and breaking down in '99 Durango

ARGH! Our 2000 Durango is experiencing the same lug/surge, stalling issues I am reading about here. Additionally, it will stall as I am driving along - last night at 45 mph. The code said it was the cam sensor - which we replaced, and today it still was acting up, code said the crank sensor - so we are replacing that too. BUT...we just replaced these parts about four months ago. AND, we replaced them about a year ago.

What would make the cam &/or crankshaft sensors fail repeatedly?
Thoughts? I am out of money and feeling pretty hopeless - with 16 months left to pay on this thing. Sigh.
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Old 03-03-2009, 08:09 PM   #55
mzdeal
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Re: no bus and breaking down in '99 Durango

I can't comment on those sensors except to say that you should be able to "test" them to see if they are working properly. It is unlikely that these devices actually have failed repeatedly.

As the weather warms up this problem is resurfacing ("no bus" shutdown) in my '99. I have cool air blowing on my PCM, so when it stalled today at a light I just popped the hood, wiggled the the middle connector till I heard the automatic shutdown relay click (other side of engine) and it started right up.

If your problem is the same, you should see a "no bus" in your odometer screen. It usually happens when it gets hot, and results from an intermittent connection problem at the PCM and the middle harness connection. Also the gauges all shut down. Cool down or wiggling this connector usually restores normal function.

If you're electro-mechanically inclined I'd recommend some trouble-shooting before buying parts. In my case it seems I'll need to resolder the PCM circuit board connector pins, which will be a hassle. Or, I can get a "rebuilt" PCM off e-bay (in Florida) for under $200 flashed.

Check all your connections.

Milt
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Old 04-11-2009, 09:41 AM   #56
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Re: no bus and breaking down in '99 Durango

im also having the no bus problem i have been disconecting my battery for a minute or so and then it rerstarts fine i hate the thought of buying a pcm
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Old 12-14-2009, 05:19 PM   #57
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Thumbs up Re: no bus and breaking down in '99 Durango



Mine was easy to fix. It was the connections to the PCM. I had a friend with a Jeep that had the same problem. Here is what I did to fix it with just a few bucks and a 20 minutes of my time, 15 of them are waiting.

1. Disconnect the battery and wait 15 minutes. Dealer Recommends this to make sure all capacitance is discharged.
2. Pull the three wire bundle connection to the PCM off, you may even notice one was not fully seated, as I did.
3. Spray out connectors on cables and on PCM with QD Electric Cleaner. You may notice that there is dirt, corrosion, etc in there. Do you best to get it all out, but do not overspray. It is better to spray a little at a time and let it air dry before spraying again.
4. Reconnect everything, including your battery.

Thats it! It fixed my problem and my friends Jeep Problem. His was caused by red dust he gets in Moab Utah while 4WD. He finally had to wrap his with tape to keep the dust out.

Mine was caused by some dirt that got in a connection that was not fully seated. It was probably pulled and not reseated by the Jiffy Lube guys trying to replace the Air Filter sitting next to these connections.

Symptoms: Random Dash Board meters going out. Check Engine Light. Battery not always getting charged. All Dash meters going out. "NO BUS" words showing on the dash board. Intermittent fixing itself and then bad again.
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Old 07-14-2010, 04:54 PM   #58
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Re: no bus and breaking down in '99 Durango

The problem described here sounds like a classic micro-fretting problem. One of the guys out there described the connector (free hanging connector) to header (board-side) in the following way: board-side gold, wire-side aluminum. Since there are no aluminum connectors that I know of, what he probably saw was tin plated female receptacles and may be the heart of the problem. If the receptacles are truly just tin plated which may be difficult to determine, as the mating connector may have gold flashed areas that come in contact with the gold header pins which are probably not visible. If not, mating header/connector surfaces, as a rule, should be of the same material, ie., tin to tin and gold to gold. The problem with gold to tin connections is that the gold side is very hard (more on that later) and the tin side is very soft, so vibration from the vehicle operation causes the connection to vibrate fore and aft and to and fro, which results in micro galling of the tin surface. With each micro-gall, more tin oxide is allowed to form which eventually builds up and results in a resistive connection that cannot support proper operation.

The reason the gold surface appears harder (counter intuitive) is that to plate gold to most metal surfaces, nickel must first be plated. The nickel is very hard and the gold is very thin (usually only a few tens of micro inches thick), so the hardness of the nickel dominates and causes micro-fretting.

The solution is a contact lubricant that is stable across a wide temperature range and is non-conductive. That lubricate is Nyegel 760G. Nyegel works by preventing oxygen from reaching the tin surface, thus preventing tin oxidation and eventual connection failure.

For low mileage connections, you can liberally apply the Nygel to make sure all pins of the header are wetted by the gel and then de-insert and insert the connector a few times to ensure properly thin wetting of the mating surfaces.

For suspected oxidized connections, use a common pencil eraser to remove any grayish looking material on the header pin surfaces that you can and then flush the connector receptacles and header pins with Isopropanol (common rubbing alcohol) until thoroughly clean of debris or any other lubricants. Use a tooth brush to scrub the area if necessary while keeping it flooded with the above alcohol. Use a hair dryer to blow away and evaporate the alcohol while being careful not to melt either the header of connector housing ---- be patient!

Next, insert and de-insert the connector at least 10 times, wiggling it as much as possible during each insertion and de-insertion. Then thoroughly coat the header pins and connector receptacles with the Nyegel lubricant. Use a clean toothbrush to ensure total coating of all connecting surfaces and the re-mate the connector and header several times.

According to a well know connector company, this field correction procedure was used on well over 200,000 vehicles in the field for the same type of problem. (not Chrysler, one of the other two)

Nyegel 760G is readily available on the Internet.

BTW, I am not a Nyegel employee, just an engineer who solved a similar problem in another industry through the help of a connector company field application engineer and Nyegel. I suggest you read more about Nyegel 760G and its development on the internet. And yes, it was for the automotive industry.

Oh yeah, my Durango is setting in the shop with the same problem tonight as I write this. Guess what I am going to be talking about tomorrow with the shop foreman.
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Old 07-17-2010, 09:40 AM   #59
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Re: no bus and breaking down in '99 Durango

Mine is actually a 2000 Durango with about 137,ooo Miles

Problem started end of last summer - No Bus.

Replaced the PCM with one from autozone - truck ran fine all winter

Problem started again at the beginning of summer - Replaced the PCM again with a warranty replacement from Autozone.

Now I'm having the probelm again - this time took it to the dealer. They wanted $800 to replace the PCM. Since I was still under Autozone warranty, I replaced with the autozone (Rebuilt by CARDONE).

Now I'm afraid to drive. Want the dealer to do a thorough check, but they tell me that because I replaced the PCM, that there is no info in the PCM to analyze.

Any suggestions ???????
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Old 08-04-2010, 07:43 PM   #60
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Re: no bus and breaking down in '99 Durango

This was all great advice from everyone. I wanted to add that I bought my 99 Dodge durango used in 2004 and just today Ran into the issue with the No Bus error. I have plenty to look forward to as far as getting this issue fixed. It soulds like I might just replace the PCM and Ill explain why.
About 4 years ago, my ABS light started comming on and I took it to a dodge dealer. When driving off the lot, it came back on. I was going on a trip and never got back to fixing it. About 2 years ago, I noticed about once a month or so, I would start the car and my gas gage would read no fuel (yes I had plenty of fuel). Even the information control center would read that I had 0 miles DTE (distance till empty). I would turn off the car and back on and this would fix it. From time to time my ABS would work but quickly the idiot light would come back on. About 6 months ago, my cruise control went out. Then of corse today my car stalls a couple times and the last time I noticed the "no bus" alert with the gages not responding and the ICC (Information control center) with no info on it. After walking home and comming back with some ideas in mind I was able to start it and get it home. (thus being the 5-20 minute cool down period)
All these items (i believe as I have seen on other sites searching for this issue) are controled by the PCM and I think that I have had an issue getting worse over the last couple years. I will see about getting it replaced and I will definatly add some sort of ventalation to keep it cooler. Your info was very helpful and I hope anyone else reading these entries will see some of the other issues I have been getting leading up to a bigger problem.
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