Optimum Super Car Setup

[PhantomDesign]

Originally posted by 454Casull
You forgot to remove the original brake disc idea. It's not good at all to mix and match brakes.

Same with chassis - one or the other. Body panels should only be carbon fiber to save weight.

Which was a mixing of hte brakes? I dont know much about brakes. Please wuote the item on my list you're critiquing.

[PhantomDesign]

Originally posted by 454Casull


bla bla bla....

....60 paragraphs of really useful stuff...

...bla bla


(it was a really long quote)

Thans for all the info!!!!!

I send you an e-mail. Either youre an awesome BS-er or you really know what you're talking about.

So far his suggestiosn look liek hte best...so critiqueing his suggestions, an giving some comarisoons, and adding some more specifics, ideas, brand-names and models, or anything would help(from the rest of you).

Anyways, I hope to discuss thsi stuff in detail with you through e-mail.

[ales]

Aeroynamically, I'd suggest the "gound effect" design of the bottom of the car, and a well-designed diffuser. You might even not need any wings (look at the Enzo), as wings produce drag, while the downforce at from the underside of the car is "free". And leave the wing mirrors off as they also produce drag (unless you need them for a particular airflow over the bodywork that you need) - use small cameras instead with a lens that allows a wide angle of view on the sides and on the rear.

[ales]

And 454Casull is very knowledgeable, too much so for his own good , so you can trust his opinons and ideas 100%.

[454Casull]

Brakes: I really don’t know much about brakes at all. Also, does carbon fiber-reinforced silicon carbide brake discs" that are "crossdrilled and grooved" sound good? Is there a better system/setup of brakes?

Carbon fiber-reinforced silicon carbide brake discs do not gas, therefore they do not need to be cross-drilled nor grooved/slotted. However, they should have vents to assist in cooling.

^^ My mistake! I forgot that brake discs don't gas anyway. :o They DO need to be cross-drilled or slotted if used with gassing brake pads.

I received a suggestion of “monocoque carbonfibre/titainium composite” Is this a titanium & carbon fiber combination? Would a “aluminum honeycomb-reinforced carbon fiber laminate moncoque” work better (weight and strength).

A monocoque is simply a big tub or shell. What they do with carbon fiber is lay multiple layers of it around a metal honeycomb and shape it using blowdryers (so that it forms the shape of a real monocoque chassis). They then toss it into an oven so that the pre-impregnated epoxy holding together the carbon fibers hardens into a binder. Now, aluminum is about half as light as titanium but with worse mechanical properties. I would suggest you choose aluminum honeycomb because it's very popular and lightweight, and (I would think) easier to to form (read: less expensive).

Aslo for the body said to use “aluminum honeycomb-reinforced carbon fiber laminate moncoque” also for body panels also. Is this different than just carbon fiber, and if so, what are the advantages.

If by body you mean chassis, then yes, I would suggest that. As for the body panels, you don't really need the excess weight (skins like the metal sheeting on normal cars would do fine), unless you're looking for very good crash protection.

Any specific suggestions (an example part) or modifications of a specific part would also be appreciated if possible. I’m going to try to figure out what every part is going to be (A modification of an existing part, materials, weight, size, pros, cons, cooling needs, durability).

Just pick a part of the car.

[454Casull]

Originally posted by ales
And 454Casull is very knowledgeable, too much so for his own good , so you can trust his opinons and ideas 100%.

I resent that!

Time to go shovel the snow...

[454Casull]

All right, some quick stuff about dimensioning.

As low as possible, definitely. Wheelbase need not be as long as you can make it, as the polar moment of inertia would likely increase. A high width/length ratio MIGHT be good, I have to look further into that.

[454Casull]

Chassis

//
Aluminum honeycomb-reinforced carbon fiber laminate monocoque

Longitudinal mid-car engine mount
\\

Body

//
Carbon fiber laminate body panels
*Removable carbon fiber rear wheel well covers, optional. I don't know if using them will affect brake cooling or possible brake duct airflow.*

Impact-modified polycarbonate windshield/windows
*you may want to make the windows fixed (unrollable, etc.) to save weight*
\\

Aerodynamics

//
Carbon fiber front air dam /w electrically-actuated bottom lip
*increase angle of attack for more front downforce, decrease for less drag/higher speed*
Carbon fiber rear spoiler /w end plates
*the shape and number of foils, etc. depends on shape of car, I should think*

Carbon fiber underbody panels /w built-in diffusing sections
*again, complexity of diffusion panel depends on shape of car?*
\\

Steering

//
Carbon fiber steering column /w pair of aluminum U-joints
Titanium carbonitrided (hereafter referred to as TiCN) aluminum rack/pinion
*gearing of pinion/rack teeth up to you*
Carbon fiber tie rods
\\

Suspension

//
Four-wheel double wishbone suspension
Forged titanium OR steel Heim joints
Carbon fiber wishbones, unequal-length non-parallel control arms

Shotpeened cold-wound steel springs
Fully-adjustable billet aluminum oil/N2 monotube dampers

\\

Induction

//
Forced induction still under consideration?

Some kind of air filter... foam or oiled cotton, placed in area of direct airflow
Ceramic-lined/coated hydroformed aluminum intake tubing
Aluminum tube/fin intercooler(s) if using forced induction

Hotwire air sensor
Hydroformed aluminum OR magnesium intake manifold
Welded hydroformed intake runners, possibly telescoping

\\

Fuel

//
K&N stainless steel fuel filter will do fine
Electric in-line fuel pump(s)?
Billet aluminum fuel rail(s), fuel pressure regulator(s)

*not much here, I know*
\\

I'll get around to the rest afterwards...

[PhantomDesign]

For current dimension plans, go to that "top secret" page.

http://phantom.ssip.net/Files/Predator%20Chassis.htm

I'll be updating that semi-often.


========Width==================
I'll probably try to decrease the width of the car by 2-6 inches from the planned. I'm not sure if that wil affect the interior or anythign else yet. I'm studying my asthetic & physical desing to see what it can handle. Is 80 too wide?

Currently: http://phantom.ssip.net/Files/Predator%20Chassis.htm
==============================

========Brakes==================
Which brake setup should I use? What would be the pros and cons of each. Would ceramic use cross drilling/groves?

Currently: http://phantom.ssip.net/Files/Chassi...&%20Brakes.htm
===============================

========Engine=================
Look at....

http://phantom.ssip.net/Files/Chassi...ne%20Stats.htm

...and critique the various options. Make additional options or add mroe information to the current options if you would like.
===============================

========Seats=============
I'm looking for dimension or a diagram of the Sparco Milano, plus it's weight. If anyoen knows the company homepage, or could find it, I could probably e-mail them for that information.
==========================

critique anythign else..jsut bringing some issues up....

Hmmm...jsut got another reply...reviewing....well, I'll update my statistics accordign to your suggestiosn in the previous reply, but it'll be a little while before they are on the site.

[DMC12]

The most recent versions are soooo much more attractive than the first images you posted on the version 1 thread. The orignal design's sides were too flat, making the car look too cheap. I realize that flat sides create more interior room... but ugliness creates less sales. IMHO the new, big side intakes look good! Think Lotus Elise when it comes to Complex Curves (harder to model, but great for sales).

If you'd like any help, I know a thing or two... went to ArtCenter for a while. E-mail or PM me:smoker2:

[FYRHWK1]

Be careful how much you take out of the cars width, not only does that often force things to be mounted higher in the chassis (meaning a higher center of gravity) it increases weight transfer to the outside wheels, pulling traction from the inside ones on a turn. Obviously you need some transfer to the outside so super wide isn't good, but it needs to have a balance.
Double wishbones are nice, but they eat up room like candy, It's definitly the way to go but make sure you keep that in mind, a large reason why the corvette has a large rear is because of the room a good double wishbone setup takes. Plus whether the design needs to use equal length or unequal arms in order to keep the wheel vertical.

Have you chosen what engine you want to use? I don't suppose you'll be making your own design for this specific car, so theres a host of engines you can use to help you choose the size of a car you'll need, those DOHC V12s are monsters.

[PhantomDesign]

I've got a lot of room for an engine...

[PhantomDesign]

So 80 inches isnt too wide. I dont actually want to reduce the width.

[ales]

Engine: what was said about the injection is that direct fuel injection is not really needed. But "normal" fuel injection is still a must - don't want to be having carbs in there, do you?

In my opinion you should be looking at 1500 - 2000 hp out of the box. That would make the car the ultimate supercar. I know this sounds like much, but there's no point in having any less. 2000 sounds good . And as you have TC and ESP, it should be reasonably easy to control.

And a couple of things about these aids. Make it so that it would be possible to disengage all of them at will (for a bit of fun), and also make TC adjustable by the driver from no wheelspin to slight to completely off.

[ales]

Also adjustable from the cockpit brake balance and I like the idea of being able to adjust the stiffness of the shock absorbers fron the cockpit as well (fronts and rears separately).

I'm against a rear spoiler as it will add drag and if it's made retractible - it will weigh too much (?). Adjustable frot airdam -