Automotive Forums .com - the leading automotive community online! Automotive Forums .com - the leading automotive community online!
Automotive Forums .com - the leading automotive community online! 
-
Latest | 0 Rplys
Go Back   Automotive Forums .com Car Chat > Dodge > Ram Van
Reply Show Printable Version Show Printable Version | Email this Page Email this Page | Subscription Subscribe to this Thread
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 02-11-2010, 04:49 PM   #46
alloro
AF Enthusiast
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: 0,0,1
Posts: 702
Thanks: 1
Thanked 25 Times in 24 Posts
Re: mysterious wire and won't fire

Quote:
Originally Posted by dragontrlr View Post
i have a ton of fuel spray on these injectors.
All the more reason to verify the spark plug wires and timing are correct. Excessive fuel is a sign that the spark timing is retarded.

When you pulled the heads, you didn't change the timing chain and gears did you?
alloro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2010, 04:52 PM   #47
dragontrlr
AF Newbie
Thread starter
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: tampa, Florida
Posts: 41
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Re: mysterious wire and won't fire

had battery on quick charge and installed tested your wire before i finished reply.
dragontrlr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2010, 04:55 PM   #48
dragontrlr
AF Newbie
Thread starter
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: tampa, Florida
Posts: 41
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Re: mysterious wire and won't fire

Quote:
Originally Posted by alloro View Post
All the more reason to verify the spark plug wires and timing are correct. Excessive fuel is a sign that the spark timing is retarded.

When you pulled the heads, you didn't change the timing chain and gears did you?
no did not touch timing chain. did not remove dist.

the extra fuel is coming from the injectors not necessarily accumulating.

i will tell you this. when i lined up mark on pulley with the 0 mark ( mine doesnt say TDC) the rotor does not line up perfectly with the wire tower.
dragontrlr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2010, 05:01 PM   #49
alloro
AF Enthusiast
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: 0,0,1
Posts: 702
Thanks: 1
Thanked 25 Times in 24 Posts
Re: mysterious wire and won't fire

Quote:
Originally Posted by dragontrlr View Post
when i lined up mark on pulley with the 0 mark ( mine doesnt say TDC) the rotor does not line up perfectly with the wire tower.
It should.
alloro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2010, 05:15 PM   #50
dragontrlr
AF Newbie
Thread starter
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: tampa, Florida
Posts: 41
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Re: mysterious wire and won't fire

Quote:
Originally Posted by alloro View Post
It should.
it should say TDC instead of 0 or it should line up perfectly. if it should line up perfectly and nothing on the timing end has been touched how do i get them to line up? the cap is fixed in it can only be installed on one spot.

engine cranks up just wont run in load. but i pulled one wire at a time from cap and nothing changes in engine sound. pull two at a time engine coughs. the spark from wire to cap is a little more orange than blue. the contact where the spark meets the wire and cap are blue/white. put that 1/2" spark is not.

i checked the voltage to the hall effect. 8.97v on one wire and 5v on the other.
dragontrlr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2010, 05:54 PM   #51
dragontrlr
AF Newbie
Thread starter
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: tampa, Florida
Posts: 41
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Re: mysterious wire and won't fire

if i loosen the dist and turn it clockwise a few degrees to wheget the rotor and #1 to line up, when engine is sitting at the zero mark on the pulley, engine wont crank, as i turn the engine over and slowly turn the dist counterclockwise back to the original position it cranks up. once running if i turn dist back clockwise engine bogs down.

tried lining up again and starting over at zero mark but battery now dead and on charger.
dragontrlr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2010, 08:05 PM   #52
alloro
AF Enthusiast
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: 0,0,1
Posts: 702
Thanks: 1
Thanked 25 Times in 24 Posts
Re: mysterious wire and won't fire

There is something so odd going on here...
Do you have a compression tester? If so, spot check a couple of the cylinders and see what you're getting for PSI readings.
alloro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2010, 08:16 PM   #53
alloro
AF Enthusiast
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: 0,0,1
Posts: 702
Thanks: 1
Thanked 25 Times in 24 Posts
Re: mysterious wire and won't fire

Quote:
Originally Posted by dragontrlr View Post
it should say TDC instead of 0 or it should line up perfectly.
The mark on the pulley should line up perfectly with zero.
alloro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2010, 08:55 PM   #54
dragontrlr
AF Newbie
Thread starter
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: tampa, Florida
Posts: 41
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Re: mysterious wire and won't fire

mark lines up perfectly with zero and is not exactly on the location for #1. unfortunately i do not have a compression tester. a funny thing happened that i have never recalled hearing before, when i was looking at the spark directly at the plug on #1 obviously the plug was out and i was cranking over. engine fired and the "woofing" sound startled me. i just never had an engine actually start with a plug out. it didnt spray anything nor did it bark or flame.

question about these injectors. should they be tapping/pulsing or constant spray? should i be able to hear them. any reason why there would be two different style injectors for this vehicle? i have an extra TBI and i pulled the injectors from it just to swap out with the ones in the van and they are different.(every part of the TBI is identical but the injectors/openings)
dragontrlr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2010, 09:09 AM   #55
alloro
AF Enthusiast
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: 0,0,1
Posts: 702
Thanks: 1
Thanked 25 Times in 24 Posts
Re: mysterious wire and won't fire

Since your distributor is pointing to 12:00 instead of 1:00 to 2:00 when the pulley mark is at zero there's a chance the timing chain jumped a couple of teeth. It's also possible someone removed the distributor drive gear at some point and installed it wrong. A compression test would confirm this issue one way or the other. With initially having tried to run the engine with the plug wires in the wrong locations, the backfiring could've caused the timing chain to jump if it is worn enough.

As to the injectors, perhaps they're just different manufacturers.
alloro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2010, 09:57 AM   #56
dragontrlr
AF Newbie
Thread starter
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: tampa, Florida
Posts: 41
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Re: mysterious wire and won't fire

the wires were like this prior to the gasket repairs. if you recall i didnt mark them and had to go thru all the hassle earlier in the post to get them right. i have also read in other forums that others have had their wires be in different positions as well. and the autozone repair online talks about it being a problem with some distributors not lining up at certain point

both sets of injectors are bosch. and they one set is longer than the other. anyway
i am without timing light and dont know what the timing is for this van so i have to figure out how to reset the dist.

will see if i can find a way to borrow compression tester from someone.

is there any way to test the pulse of a injector? i have tested the resistance to the ECM and ASD both good. i have tested voltage from ASD good for about 2 seconds, but how do i test to see if the injectors are actually receiving a pulse signal instead of a constant voltage.
dragontrlr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2010, 10:22 AM   #57
dragontrlr
AF Newbie
Thread starter
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: tampa, Florida
Posts: 41
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Re: mysterious wire and won't fire

the wires were like this prior to the gasket repairs. if you recall i didnt mark them and had to go thru all the hassle earlier in the post to get them right. i have also read in other forums that others have had their wires be in different positions as well. and the autozone repair online talks about it being a problem with some distributors not lining up at certain point

both sets of injectors are bosch. and they one set is longer than the other. anyway
i am without timing light and dont know what the timing is for this van so i have to figure out how to reset the dist.

will see if i can find a way to borrow compression tester from someone.

is there any way to test the pulse of a injector? i have tested the resistance to the ECM and ASD both good. i have tested voltage from ASD good for about 2 seconds, but how do i test to see if the injectors are actually receiving a pulse signal instead of a constant voltage.
dragontrlr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2010, 10:27 AM   #58
alloro
AF Enthusiast
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: 0,0,1
Posts: 702
Thanks: 1
Thanked 25 Times in 24 Posts
Re: mysterious wire and won't fire

Quote:
Originally Posted by dragontrlr View Post
how do i test to see if the injectors are actually receiving a pulse signal instead of a constant voltage.
Some of the more moderate to expensive scan tools will give a readout of the injector pulse widths. Other than that, you will need an oscilloscope. The pulse is too fast (3-4 ms at idle) for a volt meter to read it.
alloro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2010, 10:49 AM   #59
dragontrlr
AF Newbie
Thread starter
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: tampa, Florida
Posts: 41
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Re: mysterious wire and won't fire

i personally think this is fuel related but for one second lets back up and look at spark.

i have 8.94 volts going to dist. i dont know how to test the hall effect to see if its dropping to 0 and all. but visual inspection shows al wires free of damage, cracks etc. the sensor itself is spotless, the brass colored cup with the the tabs in the dist is spotless an corrosion free. when running i get 12+volts at terminal on coil. but lets say spark is weak and not burning the fuel instead of the theory of too much fuel getting to engine
dragontrlr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2010, 01:44 PM   #60
alloro
AF Enthusiast
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: 0,0,1
Posts: 702
Thanks: 1
Thanked 25 Times in 24 Posts
Re: mysterious wire and won't fire

Quote:
Originally Posted by dragontrlr View Post
lets say spark is weak and not burning the fuel instead of the theory of too much fuel getting to engine
If you suspect the coil, take it off and bring it to the auto parts store for testing.
alloro is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Reply

POST REPLY TO THIS THREAD


Bookmarks

Tags
body, firing, injector, order, throttle
Go Back   Automotive Forums .com Car Chat > Dodge > Ram Van

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:00 PM.

Community Participation Guidelines | How to use your User Control Panel

Powered by: vBulletin | Copyright Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
 
 
no new posts