VTEC vs. SR20DE

[CHRIS200T]

Originally posted by F20C



Honda doesn't have much Turbo engine period. If you want Turbo you have to look at aftermarket parts. F20C with T4 Turbo at 8psi produce 400hp.

The only way you will get 400 HP at 8 PSI is a custom built motor. I could do the same thing (NO PROBLEM) with a 54C SR20DET aka GTIR motor. No way in hell can you take any honda motor and push 400 HP to the wheels and not have the motor come apart. Unlike Honda motors I have seen GTIR motors put as much as 440 HP to the Wheels compleatly stock internals..

[F20C]

Originally posted by CHRIS200T


The only way you will get 400 HP at 8 PSI is a custom built motor. I could do the same thing (NO PROBLEM) with a 54C SR20DET aka GTIR motor. No way in hell can you take any honda motor and push 400 HP to the wheels and not have the motor come apart. Unlike Honda motors I have seen GTIR motors put as much as 440 HP to the Wheels compleatly stock internals..

This is not BHP but rather HP at the crank.

F20C 6 Psi Stock internals 350hp
F20C 8 Psi Head Gasket Change 400hp

There is a guy who bore and stroke his engine to 2.2L and He plans on adding Speedcraft Turbo as well. I am still waiting to see his output from the increase displacement are.

Go to S2Ki and search for Speedcraft Turbo if you don't believe me.

Mark Basch's SC for NSX C30A makes 370RWHP on stock internals @ 6PSI.

[G-Forces]

Originally posted by F20C


This is not BHP but rather HP at the crank.

BHP is still considered at the crank. I think you mean "NOT wheel HP." So those numbers you stated are the corrected number after they were done on a chassis dyno?

[F20C]

Originally posted by G-Forces

BHP is still considered at the crank. I think you mean "NOT wheel HP." So those numbers you stated are the corrected number after they were done on a chassis dyno?

Isn't BHP the amount of force need to stop the car at the wheel.

Yes the numbers are correct.

[Moppie]

hp is bhp for people to lazy to type the b.
It dosnt matter if its measured at the crank or the wheels.



Ok its like this, Honda makes some of the worlds best Natural asperiated motors, and has done for some time, infact thier whole philosophy seems to be geared around it.
While Nissan on the other hand make some nice N/A motors, and ONE high hp N/A engine, that is very rare and nothing more than a one off.
But they do make some of the worlds best Turbo charged engines, and next to BMW the worlds best the I6 engine.

Honda still leads the world with mass produced variable lift and timing engines, and should do since they have a 10year lead over everybody else.

[Morpheus XIII]

Nicely put. It's hard to get people to understand that each automaker has their own thing, and sometimes they are impossible to compare. For instance, most enthusiasts love both the feel of a high-powered turbocharged vehicle, AS WELL AS a free-revving naturally aspirated motor. It's like comparing Coke to 7-UP, instead of Coke to Pepsi.

And bhp is brake horsepower, the amount of force needed to stop the wheel--as in flywheel/crankshaft, etc.

[CHRIS200T]

Originally posted by F20C


This is not BHP but rather HP at the crank.

F20C 6 Psi Stock internals 350hp
F20C 8 Psi Head Gasket Change 400hp

Not on a stock computer. your talking about all kinds of stuff that needs to be done to support that HP. And I find it hard to beleave you will get another 50 HP with 2 more PSI and lowering the static comprestion. your dynamic comprestion if at all will only be slightly higher IF that.

[G-Forces]

Not to get off topic but bhp is brake horsepower, yes, but it's hp measured on a brake dyno. Typcially if you just talk about hp or bhp on a car you talk about it on the crank/flywheel.

There are still chassis brake dynos that measure at the wheels but you should really state at the wheels as most people assume you're talking about flywheel/crank hp otherwise. The most common chassis dyno is the inertial dyno, which uses a drum or drums with a known weight and calculate the torque based on the time needed to accellerate the drum to different speeds.

Sorry for getting off topic.

[F20C]

Originally posted by CHRIS200T


Not on a stock computer. your talking about all kinds of stuff that needs to be done to support that HP. And I find it hard to beleave you will get another 50 HP with 2 more PSI and lowering the static comprestion. your dynamic comprestion if at all will only be slightly higher IF that.

Not all kinds of stuff is needed for 8.5 psi. Speedcraft said the Turbo could run safe at 7 psi with intercooler. However they set it at 6.5 psi so per-caution measures.



Blue is Comptech Supercharger. 6psi with everything stock.
Red is Speedcraft Turbo. 6.5 Psi with everything stock.

[drift]

um... Hondas dont necessarily need an ECU upgrade to boost.

Nissans do in that respect... JWT will reprogram so your car reads boost and timing can be adjusted accordingly since they're all directfire ignitions.


ok folks, why not compare two similar platforms... the CA18DE and the B18C? same displacement.

[CHRIS200T]

Originally posted by drift
um... Hondas dont necessarily need an ECU upgrade to boost.

Nissans do in that respect... JWT will reprogram so your car reads boost and timing can be adjusted accordingly since they're all directfire ignitions.

No thay all don't have directfire ignistions. Only the RWD Silvia motor has that and even then we get rid of that and use a Distribitor from a RWD SR20DE motor

ok folks, why not compare two similar platforms... the CA18DE and the B18C? same displacement.

CA18DE compaired to a B18C is not even close compairison. VTEC vs non VTEC. The closest compairison to Nissan and Honda is a B16A and a SR16VE. B16A HP in its highest verson makes 170HP Nissans SR16VE in its lowest version makes 175HP and the Production Version of the SR16VEN1 makes 200HP = Highest HP/Leter motor to come from japan in N/A Form.

Hows that for compairison. But you can't compair a CA18DE from the early 80's to a up to date B18C. That is not even a close to compair.

[Morpheus XIII]

I have to second that about the CA18DE not being a righteous conteder for the comparo. Not only was it lacking variable valve timing, and being seriously aged, but it was the true developing predecessor of the SR engine, which we all know was Nissan's starting point for serious turbocharged four cylinder performance. The CA18DET was, no, IS still great for blown power. The DE motors were not meant for that naturally aspirated fury. And as stated before, the VE powerplants are much more accoutered for the task.

[Oz]

Screw both of them and fit a SR20-DET. mmmmm....more boost...:frog:

[RazorGTR]

I watched this thead and it is interesting on how it went from an N/A comparaison to turbo'ed, supercharged bla bla bla.

Chris the GTI-R motor is a Nissan Motorsports motor to start with you can't use that in the comparison. That is apples to oranges. It was developed as a rally engine with forged pistons, quad throttle bodies, larger 550 cc injectors the works.

Both motors compared have their pros and cons. If you want to go all out and call the best jap motor ever produced then look no further than the RB series, or the Q45 series V-8's. Nissan has had it all over in the rest in the forced induction competition, until you get into the new F1 Toyota is doing. But again that is not a mass produced engine for general car sales.

[CHRIS200T]

Originally posted by Razorgtst

Chris the GTI-R motor is a Nissan Motorsports motor to start with you can't use that in the comparison. That is apples to oranges. It was developed as a rally engine with forged pistons, quad throttle bodies, larger 550 cc injectors the works.

1st of all GTI-R is a production motor! not a Motorsports motor. and thay are not factory with forged pistons thay are standard cast pistons. and thay are not 550cc injectors. Nissan's 550cc injectors are side fed injectors and the GTI-R's are 444CC and are top fed. you can't use 550's in a GTIR if you wanted to well not with the stock fuel rail..
GTIR INFO AS FOLLOWED!

The GTi-R has oil squirter piston coolers
The GTi-R has a bigger oil pump.
The GTi-R has a different front pulley.
The GTi-R has a water cooled oil cooler.
The GTi-R has lower compression pistons (8.3:1 vs 8.5:1) found in the BlueBird and Silvia motors. Lower comprestion is due to the cylender head is a bit more open.
The GTi-R has 444cc Top fed injectors.
The GTi-R has mechanical shims and solid lifters with a slightly bigger in duration exhaust cam.
The GTi-R has individual Throttle body injection.
The GTi-R DET has stronger main cap bolts.
The GTi-R DET has stronger head bolts bolts 12mm vs Silvia's and Bluebirds are 10mm along with all SR20DE motors.
The GTi-R DET has beefier rods.

2nd of all. I wasn't compairing SR20DET motors to N/A Honda motors.
The most even compairison is the SR16VE and B16A motor.

PS: We swapped in a SR20VE motor for the 1st time with a few bolt ons (Intake,Exhaust,Header) into a 91 Sentra and ran it at the track 1/4 mile and it ended up posting a pretty impressive 13.7@100 mph on its 1st time out.