Lingenfelter Corvette vs. Hennessey Viper

[Porsche]

Originally posted by Hamann
The Corvete is faster and the Viper looks better, but I want to see track times and not drag strip times. Until then, I rather have a Porsche Gemballa 911 600 GTR.

Now your talking, make it a 650!

As for me, this is one of those comparo I'm undecided on, I don't like Vettes, but this one goes like stink. And Vipers are drop dead gorgeous, but this one isn't that fast .

[FYRHWK1]

Originally posted by Viper 10
Chibi:

Don't get too enthralled with stats and spec's. You should know darn well that the automakers and tuners are in deep in bed with the car magazines.

Here's and example Are Car Magazines Too Close?

Pennzoil:

If G's aren't a measure of a cars handling, what is? If a car can hold superior G forces over another, it WILL handle better PERIOD. Now if you want to debate things like trail braking, threshold braking, understeer and oversteer tendencies then that is a different story that comes down to personal preferences.

FYR:

You can agree with the tuners all you want. But you are EXACTLY the kind of idiot that hands money to crooks like Hennessey, BUB. You have no idea what you are talking about with tuners and the tricks that they play. I have looked first hand at the work that the tuner gods like TNT and Hennessy have done. It is embarrassing how they rip people off.

You also don't hear things about how crappy a car like Venom 800 TT handle just going straight. I have fellow Viper owner friends who have seen these things first hand with Hennessey cars. I have seen and driven the King Snake car and can attest to the the crappy handling. Can you say the same dickhead?`

Tell me why the exact engine block that Lingenfelter uses (which is the C5R motor, needs to be refreshed after every single race? Tell me why the Viper race engines would go for 4 or 5 races between rebuilds? Screw your little specs, that's reality.

I come to this forum to shed some real life Viper ownership and track experience with you, and all you do is sit on the toilet reading your stupid magazines and take stupid pot shots .

Next time, don't get personal when debating something as stupid as this. Loosen your sphincter up a little...

I'm done with you and this thread... bub

i'm going to agree with them because they know more then you do, which doesnt seem to be hard to do, and they also know more then I. Lingenfelter does charge too much, but he doesnt rip people off, he has built a daily drivable 9.5 sec automatic C5, argue till you pass out, he's done it and you have not. and i wasnt defending hennessey, hes a crook working on a inferior platform compared to John L. but thats his problem. PROVE the C5-R needs to be refreshed after every race, and that the GTS-R engine doesnt, I'd LOVE to see this. I'm not expecting anything because i know you're lying, but maybe it'll shut you up. and you are the one who is getting defensive here, you take this all personally, and you cant stand to admit the fact that the viper is far from the end of all performance and the car to beat, its not.

[flylwsi]

in the most recent car and driver mag, there is a comparo of supercars...


lingenfelter won out over everyone... including the hennessey...


also in the issue is an editorial about the status of hennessey and his issues with the BBB. i recommend checking it out, as they shed some light on his operation, and he admits to taking on a bit too much, and shooting himself in the foot at times...

but the lingenfelter won the shootout...
check it out...

[flylwsi]

oh, yeah...

skidpad g's are measured while making the car go in a circle, aka turning... what do you do in a corner? i would call that turning... that's why it's relevant, and yeah, the skidpad g's and cornering g's are the same...

aero aids help out at high speeds cornering, but on a street car, the aero is pretty much the same b/n the viper and vette, so if you have better skidpad g's, you will have better cornering in general...

keep in mind that the vette is less tail happy than the tq monster viper... which tends to break traction just for fun... and that's just on stock cars... vettes historically handle better than vipers b/c they are more well balanced...

[v10_viper]

yea i remember that, i think i got it about a month ago. it's kinda bull though the TNT Viper i think got time added because it was "too loud", i mean it's the biggest litre engine there of course it's gonna be loud, i mean they coulda made it quiter through the exhaust but why would u do that?? but then when they tested the three stock cars the Viper beat the Z06 and placed behind the Porsche Turbo, i think if they would have had a better driver for the Viper, which was an ACR, i think it might have beat the Turbo but maybe not. i like most all of those cars in that supercar test but i'd like to see some more exotics personally, Ferraris, maybe some tuned M3's but i guess people who buy them cars wont race them. i think one of the reasons the Hennessy did so bad was because on street tires it just incinerates them and it's hard to get grip probably but 4th place overall for the hennessy isn't bad so i wont fight. i think that Vipers, being a big c.i. engine should stick to non forced aspiration, along with other big cubic inch engines such as the vette. the Apex Lethal 750 Viper is nice to, and it placed 6 so that's not that bad, cept that stupid entertainment center they have in it, really where would it fit?? and if the TNT wouldn't have gotten that penalty for being loud then all the snakes woulda been in the top ten but otherwise, all of those cars are extremely nice, this has probably been one of my most favorite issues from C&D cept for the one where they had the new Viper in it.

[S Brake]

Originally posted by Gravitom
So the Viper didn't bore its block and add twin turbos, how is that an excuse for it performing worse?

This is taken directly from Motor Trend, At full throttle, the Venom 800 Twin-Turbo pulls so ungodly hard your face...
The viper was infact a Twin Turbo

[Chris]

The C&D comparison pitted the Corvette driven by an editor against a Porsche driven by Hurley Haywood (remember, hes driven Porsches since the stone age??), and a Corvette driven by John Heinrichy. However, the vette had a problem: it hit a cone, which ruined its final run. Also, the Vette was faster around the course, and braked alot better. It just doesn't have the grunt (stock) to make up for it.

So, I go with the Lingenfelter. You a get a quality piece in short order, that is amazingly fast.
Actually, no, I would get a Mosler MT900 with the Lingenfelter 427TT. That would be impressive

[Pennzoil GT-R]

Originally posted by flylwsi
oh, yeah...

skidpad g's are measured while making the car go in a circle, aka turning... what do you do in a corner? i would call that turning... that's why it's relevant, and yeah, the skidpad g's and cornering g's are the same...

aero aids help out at high speeds cornering, but on a street car, the aero is pretty much the same b/n the viper and vette, so if you have better skidpad g's, you will have better cornering in general...

keep in mind that the vette is less tail happy than the tq monster viper... which tends to break traction just for fun... and that's just on stock cars... vettes historically handle better than vipers b/c they are more well balanced...

how many corners are there that are nice smooth constant radius circles in a controlled environment? that are preceded by a striaght and followed by a straight. in real conditions a car will have to dive through varying radius corners, changing camber, and hairpins. that is why skidpad G's dont mean much in handling. if you dont understand by now i doubt you ever will

[v10_viper]

When they fill out how many g's a car can pull i think they should put at what speed they pulled it, cuz part of what your saying is true, if it's such a tight corner that a car can only take it at 30 then it's not going to pull as many g's as when it's top force is, beyond that your suspension and tires give up on you. But lateral skidpad g's do tell how fast you can handle a corner. i mean when they do this they literally sit in the car going around on a 600 foot diameter circle (i think, please correct me if i'm wrong bout the measurment) and speed up until the car reaches it's breakaway point, if they dont tell you how fast you can take a corner then tell me why the hell they'd give you what a car can pull for g's if it's for nothing.

[Chris]

Actually, they time how fast the car can go around the skidpad, and translate that speed into the g rating. So, if your car can only go 10mph, it will have a super-low g rating. This doesn't mean it cant steer worth a crap, it just means that it cant go around the circle fast. For most cars, though, reaching terminal velocity is not a problem. So the G rating is still valid.
But, yes, it is not the best indicator of track performance. The Supra got a great G rating, but due to its high weight, it was not so great on the track, where weigh transfer and a host of other factors come into play.

[FYRHWK1]

how many corners are there that are nice smooth constant radius circles in a controlled environment? that are preceded by a striaght and followed by a straight. in real conditions a car will have to dive through varying radius corners, changing camber, and hairpins. that is why skidpad G's dont mean much in handling. if you dont understand by now i doubt you ever will

Thats not entirely true, lateral Gs can be taken on any kind of radius turn since its the distance traveled times the speed or some kind of math, i'm not quite sure how they measure it.
But, the maximum lateral load will tell you how hard you can push your car through any given turn, granted changing radius turns will give different load ratings and the angle of the front wheels will likely cause the front to give way with a sharper radius, the maximum lateral load on a skidpad is pretty much the most you can accomplish, it gives a good idea of what your car can take laterally.
It also tells you which way your car is set up, in terms of under or oversteer, but its just 1 small part of the cars overall ability.

[flylwsi]

i appreciate the backup on this topic...

g's are g's. end of story.

the g's on a skidpad are more of the extreme than on a race track, and i'm sure if you measured the extreme g's on a track and a skid pad, they'd be the same, or close...

a skid pad only measures part of it however, is it doesn't account for the downforce and all the other goodies that have an effect on your car at the track...

and i'm not saying it completely ignores them, however, they do not come into as much light as on a track.

[Chris]

Well, instant lateral g's can be much higher than the constant achieved at a race track. Also, transitions might not be smooth. Case in point, a Supra gets great numbers, but at the track, it high weight turns into unsettled handling. As such, it is not as good a track car as it would seem at first. As such, the slalom course is extremely important in handling terms. For example, the new Mini has a great slalom, but an average g-rating. We can therefor deduce that the mini has excellent transient behaviour; that it will not go around a turn at extremely high speeds, but it will go from corner to corner of varying radiuses very quickly. Also, it would be a hoot to drive.

My $.02

[SuPeRcAr_MaN]

Corvette. Don't feel like putting a reason.

[flylwsi]

chris, i think you said what i meant...