Read if ur wondering about the 3sgte swap

[91 Celica St]

I'm writing this so people stop making threads about it...input as much as you want for those of you that actually know about it...I'm getting done with helping on the swap for a friend, planning on doing it in my car soon enough
here we go
(taken off toyotacelicaonline) added my input at the bottom

3S-GTE Swap

In this space I would like to have a complete writeup on a 3S-GTE swap. The 3S-GTE is a the potent engine found in the All-Trac/GT-4 Celicas and Turbo MR2s. With anywhere from 180-260 Hp from 2.0L (and potential for far more) it is one of Toyota's most potent 4-cylinders out there. The good news? ...the 4-6th generation Celica chassis was built to take the engine and it bolts into existing engine mounts (for those with the 5S). The bad news is the cost...expect to spend at least $5000 for the swap.

What engine choices are there?

From my understanding there are 3 generations of the 3S-GTE offered either domestically or abroad.


1st Generation (190 HP) 1988-89 ST165 (Celica GT4/All-Trac)
2nd Generation(200 HP) 1990-93 ST185 (Celica GT4/Alltrac)
1990-199x(?) SW20 (MR2 Turbo)
3rd Generation (260 HP) 1994-99 ST205 (Celica GT4)
Note: not released in U.S.

Needless to say that each generation had significant improvements over the last (such as larger throttle bodys, better turbo and intercooler designs) and it is better to go with the later versions if possible. Unfortunately, the third generation was quite rare (meaning pricey) and for those of you who need to meet emissions in the US...this engine was never tested, and it may not meet national requirements (but more on that later...). Even rarer versions were sold in the 2500 or so cars sold under the Carlos Saintz/Group A/RC names which were fully built rally motors with a few advanced features "turned off" or present but not functioning.

How is the transmission handled?

Well, the 3S-GTE does bolt on to and works with the transmission that comes with the 5SFE (2.2L). Whether it will last under the additional power, it is not known. Unfortunately as far as I have heard...Toyota never mated the 3S-GTE to a FWD transmission. If you choose to use a stronger transmission you can use either the transmission from a MR2 or the rare V6 Camry transmission, both of which bolt on to the 3SGTE engine

Blkrx7 notes that if you do choose to use an MR2 tranny as opposed to one from a GT-Four:

Hoses don't line up of course, they use diffrent spigots on the MR-2 motor to line up with those hoses. The I/C is useless, and a couple of systems (like the intake) are in slightly different locations. It makes for more headache.

How much will this cost me?

Equipment: Engine, LHD wiring harness (extremely rare...RHD Celicas have the wiring enter on the other side of the firewall) and ECU
approximate cost: $2000.00US

Labor: Expect around 20 hours minimum for the mechanical part of the swap. 20 hours at an hourly rate of say $50.00/hour...
approximate cost: $1000

Custom parts/equipment: stock exhaust wont bolt up to the 3S engine, so you will need a custom exhaust which accomadates the new engine ($500-1000). You will need a clutch which can handle the extra power. 3SGTE plate with a 5SFE disc ($500).
approximate cost: $1000-1500

Transmission/Motor mounts: simplifying for this estimate we will assume for now that the transmission used is from a 5S-FE (no cost). The engine mounts to the same mounts as the 5SFE...so again assuming no cost. Not of course that using a V6 Camry or MR2 tranny opens up a whole new set of costs.
approximate cost: $0-up

Misc. Parts:You're going to need to get a hold of a Celica 4wd Turbo sensor pack (If it didn't come with the motor). Turbo Pressure sensor, AFM, fuel pump resistor packs, ick, more sensors than I can possibly name. This is where things get sticky, you're going to need to source a LOT of spare parts, and depending on where you get them from I think a reasonable margin for error, and price in maybe $500 of electrical parts? Including wiring, connectors, sensors, ect. ect. ect.. You will also want to replace the water pump and timing belt (est. $150 with labor?)while the engine is out of the car.
approximately: $650

Thus we come to a grand total of $4650.00.

Note that this isnt taking in to account any problems, tax, broken parts, installer incompetance, intercooler placement or anything that might pop up. Nor does it take into account upgrades that you may wish to do if you plan to later modify the 3S-GTE. You may also expect to pay a bit extra to insure register and drive your car after the swap.

----

received over email...."a cheaper alternative for the ECU/Wiring situation would be to use your stock ECU to control chassis electrical functions, and an aftermarket standalone engine management system to run the engine. A new Haltech could run you $1000 to do this. A Wolf, maybe $750. Also, this will eliminate the need for some of those expensive sensors like AFM."

Is this legal?

This really depends on where you live. Emissions requirements vary by state (and country) with California being the most strict. In California you are only allowed to swap in an engine that is from a same year or newer California car. This most likely mean a 1st or 2nd generation 3S-GTE depending on your car as the 3rd generation was never released in the US. You also must have all original smog equipment still on and funtioning in the car. I have no idea what it takes in any other states or elsewhere in the world. I would recomend doing some major research before beging this swap.

I also have no idea what it takes to insure a car with this done to it. You may not be insure a car with a typical insurance policy. ...and before you go and forget to tell your insurance company about the swap consider that the "wrong engine" in your car may void your insurance entirely if you are in an accident or your car is stolen.


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basically the swap isnt as easy as most of you thought...yes the motor bolts up directly to ur car and sits nice and tight....but wipe that shitty grin off your face becuase you didnt have to spen $100+ on a motor mount relocation kit like al those other honda bitches did.... becuase you now have to worry abotu the shitty ass wiering harness....the swap is a lot harder than most people think...if you havnt done a couple of swap yourself, or at least have the toyota green book (wiering book) then your SOL and ur gunna be asking me or other poeple on this board all the time on what to finish

for all you 16 year old kids that come on here going "i wanan do the swap" forget it, you probably dont have the money/time/ experience to do this swap...stick with ur 5sfe becuase in realtvie aspects its not that bad of a motor...youll be killing any hona that not equipped with vtec or thats failry new with just intake headers and exhaust... if you really want to, go on ebay and make your own turbo kit for ur 5sfe from 3sgte parts....its not that hard

[49cent]

how fast do you thunk it will be??

[SigmaProjects]

i think im just going to take it to the pros when i get money.

[smbius]

http://www.radcastro.com/Projects/Pr...T2GT4/898.aspx

[91 Celica St]

admin make this a stickey post please...youll be gratly appreciated by me and others...cuz i hate responding to the same topic over and over

[lmcpeeks]

Just to comment on the last comment on the original post the fastest quarter mile Mr2 at one point was a turbo charged 5sfe!!!!!!!!!! its been done in a number of 2s I know about and is a hell of a lot cheaper and easier than a swap. People have also mated a 3sge or gte head to a 5sfe and turboed from there. Even saw one with a vvti head on it. I've helped with a couple Honda swaps and not to knock anyone who has or is doing a swap but I've never seen a swap were the car didn't have problems that drove the owner crazy. Unless u are a excellent mechanic or have plenty of money and another car don't swap u're motor buy the car with the motor u want.

[Cynistah Celica]

Okay, when I got my 1990 celica gt I felt like I was on the top of the food chain, untill the LS VTEC and CR VTEC cars starting kicking everyone's ass, then I went into hiding and in my cave with my black Celica and I started gathering information and stats untill I arrived at the point where I am now! I'm now ready to put all my calculations into the car. I was going to build my own 3SGTE but I met a friend with a 3SGTE in a dead celi and I intend on getting the parts from the car once I buy it, and I work in a parts store, I don't want to say all that I know now so that someone can beat me to my goal! I know that the GT 2.2L tranny can bolt into the 3SGTE but I don't know if the ST Tranny has the same capability this is all I need to know right now, so please deliever this info whoever has it.

[91 Celica St]

st tranney dosent bolt up and fyi ud be about the 20th person to do it, i completed helpeing someone do this swap about a good 3 months ago...

[Cynistah Celica]

Heh heh hee, well thatnks for the information, I know I wouldn't be the first person to swap the 3SGTE into a front wheel drive Celi, (where do you think I got the idea from?!) but like I said i'm not saying what i'm up to because most people think only one way, oblivious to other routes, so I know that people do that swap...... but no one I know has done what I am going to do.....so keep an open mind and thanks.

[Cynistah Celica]

Okay me and this guy had this different information so someone else put the info if they have it, what block did the 1990-1993 toyota celica gt 2.2L 5sfe, the 1989-1992 2.0 3sfe come with? And is there a difference in the crankshaft of the 2.0 3sfe camry engine, 3GLEC (supercharged 2.0 that came in the mr2 and maybe celica in the late 80s), and the 2.0 3SGTE celi All Track engine? I know they have the same fuckin crank and almost identical block but someone tells me no! Someone told me that the celi has an ALUMINUM BLOCK and I know my shit is CAST IRON! So please help me out!

[91 Celica St]

the 5sfe is aluminum, the 3sge and 3sgte are cast iorn...no the crank and bore/stroke are all the same on the 3sge and 3sgte...its diffrent on the 5sfe than the otehr 2

[91CeliChris]

Hey, yup your right this is one of those 16 actually 15 year old whose think of doing that. Im getting my car tomorrow and the guy who had it B4 did a crap load of burnouts so i expect the tranny and or engine to be messed up a lil so once that goes im gonna get a 3S-GTE for it. :P but i willdo this cause ill get help from my causin that owns a toyota supra his site's at http://www.thebluesupra.com and hes done engine work and stuff to his car so once i get mine and the money and stuff im gonna ask him if he'll help me. :P Ohh yeah Its a 1991 Toyota Celica GT-S so hopefully ill be all set for the bolts and stuff.

[Fast Forward]

Here's a site that's got some pretty rad engines.

www.jdm-motor-engines.com

[49cent]

could you use a 91- up mr2 3sgte motor with a 5spd tranny and put it in a 90 celica gt with a 5sfe??

[91 Celica St]

yes you could, the wiering harness is a lil diffrent tho, it would probably have to be shortened, as well as new halfshafts need to be made becuase the mr2 ones will not work and im not quite sure if the 5sfe ones will work...but your 5sfe tranny will mate up to the 3sgte, just use the 3sgte flywheel and disk and 5sfe plate