ferrari Vs Porsche

[crayzayjay]

Originally Posted by DinanM3_S2

My biggest problem with the rear engine setup is that I know, that they know, that they could do better. Nobody uses RR anymore except Porsche with the 911. Virtually all modern supercars are variations on MR. They even use that setup on their own supercar, the Carrera GT, yet they refuse to change the all important 911 to MR. The 911 is a great car, but I can't help but think they could be making an even better car.

Depends what your definition of 'better' is. The 911 is a simply unique car to drive fast. Other cars are great in their own right but just because 'supercars' are typically mid-engined, it doesn't make the 911 automatically inferior. If you haven't driven one, please do. 911's have trounced many a mid-engined 'supercar'.

Originally Posted by DinanM3_S2

The N/A 6-cylinder will place further limits on the 911, Boxster, and Cayman. Will they seriously go all the way up to a 4.0L 6-cylinder for the next generation 911 CS, bumping the engine by .2l as they have been? Eventually they won't be able to compete in the horsepower war (some would say they already can't) unless they drastically change the entry level 911 powerplant. I don't know if the answer is a V8, higher revvs (generally reserved for the GT3 and a bit harsh for a regular 911), or forced induction (generally reserved for the Turbo and GT2), but a 4 liter 6-cylinder is starting to get rediculous. Eventually Porsche won't be able to squeeze more power out of a N/A 6-cylinder. BMW has already given up, going from the I6 in the E36 and E46 M3 to a V8 in the E92. Will Porsche be willing to make necessary changes to keep the 911 competitive?

The fact is the 911 remains competitive despite its power disadvantage. How many times have you seen a 911 trounce a more powerful car, be it Ferrari / BMW / Lambo on a racetrack simply because, in the right hands, it is a stupendous track tool.

Originally Posted by DinanM3_S2

I honestly do think that Porsche is a little weak right now when it comes to motorsports. Only recently has Porsche returned to prototype racing in LeMans/ALMS, and only in P2 (granted, sometimes they are faster then P1). They also don't compete in F1, generally considered the height of motorsports. The entire Ferrari company is dedicated to developing and raising funds for their F1 team, while Posche has no such focus on motorsports. Perhaps it is unfair to say Porsche is weak in motorsports due to all of the 911s racing in various series, but they definitely do not compete at the level Ferrari does and they are definitely not as dedicated to motorsports as Ferrari is at a company-wide level. Somewhere along the line the spirit of Ferdinand has slipped away while Enzo's racing centered philosophy is still very much alive.

F1 is the most publicised motorsport. Maybe Ferrari are able to compete at that level because of the amount of tacky merchandise they sell. Frankly speaking, if that doesn't make Enzo roll in his grave...
Anyway, the fact is that Porsche is more present in the 'grass roots' of motorsport. In addition, its products (GT3, GT3RS, among others) bring motorsport to 'real' people. A GT3 is about as much fun as you will have on a track and for what, half the price of an F430? Forget yourToyota is in F1, does that make them superior to Porsche?

Originally Posted by DinanM3_S2

I honestly do like Porsche, but I can't help but feel that they are being overtaken by BMW, Mercedes, and Audi as the premier German performance company.

You must be joking...
Audi's R8 is a real contender. The rest of its cars are overdosed on steroids. Mercedes, don't make laugh. BMW seems to be getting too soft. Remember the TG feature of the 911S, Vantage, and M6? If memory serves, that was a rear-engined, 6-cylinder car decimating a front engined car which had an extra 150bhp...

Originally Posted by DinanM3_S2

Performance cars like the Audi R8 arn't limited by Porsche's RR 6cyl philosophy, and are better off for it. BMW, Mercedes, and Audi all compete in top level motorsports (BMW and Mercedes in F1, Audi in LMP1) where Porsche is nowhere to be seen. Meanwhile, Porsche gives us a SUV and is about to sell a sedan like car called the Panamera. Porsche is in serious need of a wakeup call, or else they will be best known for upscale roadsters and SUVs rather then genuine performance and racing.

Porsche doesn't need to compete regulary in motorsports. As long as it hones its cars at the 'ring, the end product will continue to speak for itself. Cars like the Cayenne and Panamera mean cars like the GT3 and Carrera GT are possible. I can live with that.

[crayzayjay]

Originally Posted by Moppie

Porsche is trying its hardest to become a new BMW.

Not exactly...

Originally Posted by Moppie

They know that to grow they have to expand their market beyond middle

They know they have to stay independent.

Originally Posted by Moppie

Then, finaly, they can retire the 911, and replace it with something a little more modern.

They will never retire the 911. Funny how people lay into the 911 when it still sets the standards in so many ways...

Originally Posted by Moppie

For those that love it, and I know there are some weird people out there,

If you've driven a 911 and didn't like it, YOU are weird. Or don't know how to drive.

Originally Posted by Moppie

How good could it have been if they had put the engine in the right place?

Everyone else builds their cars with engines in the middle. Why should Porsche just become another "me too"? Especially when the 911 is superior to just about anything within its price range, and most of the cars above it?

[Pavlo]

The 911 has character, which to me is important in a car. It's not just another show-off with a car that looks just like any other "sports car". Porsche has been showing it's glory since the early days, the 356 was made to be a tiny, light sports car, and despite it having a much weaker engine, they were giving Ferrari s a run for their money.
Most new car are becoming "Function, Function, Function", missing out on the character of the car, and the fun factor.

On Top Gear when Clarkson test drove the 997 T, he compared it to the F430, saying that Porsche is in fact a better car.

[VR43000GT]

Originally Posted by Pavlo

The 911 has character, which to me is important in a car. It's not just another show-off with a car that looks just like any other "sports car". Porsche has been showing it's glory since the early days, the 356 was made to be a tiny, light sports car, and despite it having a much weaker engine, they were giving Ferrari s a run for their money.
Most new car are becoming "Function, Function, Function", missing out on the character of the car, and the fun factor.

On Top Gear when Clarkson test drove the 997 T, he compared it to the F430, saying that Porsche is in fact a better car.

I do recall that. However, that is one man's opinion. And speaking freely, a dumb man's opinion. I would be surprised if Jeremy Clarkson could point out his head from his ass. If they would have thrown a XK in with those two cars he would have somehow in his somewhat inchorent ramble made it out to be superior two botht he F430 and the the 997 T. That is one source (Top Gear) where I would never want to pull any ideas or facts from. While it is entertaining, it makes for a less than poor source on almost anything.