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Old 07-18-2005, 09:42 PM   #16
k3smostwanted
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Re: Twin Turbo Swap...

Quote:
Originally Posted by NMZXTT
If you use the NA tranny with a TT flywheel/clutch, you have to grind the inside of the bellhousing to clear the larger flywheel.
no not exactly...i have talked to a guy that used the N/A transmission and all he used was the shim between the starter and the bell housing. i hvae also heard that the bell-housing needs grinded down but Z1 says it does not.

maybe nissan changed the size of the bell housing during the run of the Z32s...

thanks wes...i was waiting for you to do this.
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Old 07-18-2005, 09:51 PM   #17
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Something else to remember guys...

For those of you that may happen to be converting an N/A 2+2 to a TT make sure that you are prepared to spend slightly more money... about $700 more. TT swap was made to be a B***h just so people can change from liking a nissan to lusting for a nissan. Be safe patient and prepared to know that your going to make mistakes if you try new shortcuts without experience. Although the instructions seem simple there are many other things that your going to just have to learn on your own...

Might I suggest
Ordering your parts from anybody may seem like a good idea at first but trust me its not. There are people with money that are still thursty for more and really don't care how they get it so if your on a TT only budget, always be prepared to purchase other simple things that people don't care about you worrying about. i.e. bolts, nuts, and gaskets. Be sure to also check out everything when your ordering it. Chances are, especially if its your first swap, that many of the parts that your order are not only going to be difficult to find but once you do find them getting them to yourself once you need them... For instance you may have ordered your full engine and transmission but won't later discover that your transmission is missing your its bolts.

Keep in mind what kind of car it is that you have, even though there may not be many in your area, there are many being used (parts wise). What this means is that your parts that you ordered have been around a few times. The dealer that you bought it from probably didn't have the 300 full body but probably just parts for it laying around. Mechanic shops that don't want to buy new parts usually dont care because they are just trying to make a sale.

Finnaly as mentioned before this is not an easy swap so take your time, understand that nissan isn't a simple american small block, learn from your mistakes the first time please, and enjoy your new wonderful probably permanent new edition to your racing family.

BTW: excellent post k3
Highly professional and clariful keep up the good work
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Old 07-18-2005, 10:05 PM   #18
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Re: Twin Turbo Swap...

Quote:
Originally Posted by jam4shi
For instance you may have ordered your full engine and transmission but won't later discover that your transmission is missing your its bolts.
did you have someone in mind you were speaking about???

i think i will be ready to undertake the RB20DET in the Z31 next year wether or not you buy it. i think it will be fun to say the least.
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Old 07-19-2005, 02:34 PM   #19
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no not exactly...i have talked to a guy that used the N/A transmission and all he used was the shim between the starter and the bell housing. i hvae also heard that the bell-housing needs grinded down but Z1 says it does not.
Hey whatever, but I have actually DONE the conversion, and I am telling you, if you use a TT flywheel with a NA tranny, you HAVE to grind out the inside of the bellhousing, AND fabricate a 4mm shim to go under the starter.





No hearsay here. Actual experience.
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Old 07-19-2005, 04:44 PM   #20
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Re: Twin Turbo Swap...

Quote:
Originally Posted by NMZXTT
Hey whatever, but I have actually DONE the conversion, and I am telling you, if you use a TT flywheel with a NA tranny, you HAVE to grind out the inside of the bellhousing, AND fabricate a 4mm shim to go under the starter.

No hearsay here. Actual experience.
i know your telling the turth and all but im saying...many people ahve done the conversion without grinding down the bell housing. trust me...or you can read for yourself at TwinTurbo.net

people do it both ways...i believe that you had too but i also knwo there are people who havent. sorry to burst your bubble...
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Old 07-19-2005, 04:48 PM   #21
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Re: Twin Turbo Swap...

What do you mean buy 'shim'?

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Old 07-19-2005, 04:53 PM   #22
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Re: Re: Twin Turbo Swap...

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZedEx
What do you mean buy 'shim'?

-Wes
a little piece of fabricated metal that will space the starter off of the bell housing...it allows you to slide in the larger TT flywheels and still have the teeth line up on the starter.
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Old 07-19-2005, 06:56 PM   #23
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Quote:
What do you mean buy 'shim'?
Look in the second picture I posted of the flat piece of metal laying on the ground beside the starter. The TT flywheel is about 8mm larger in diameter than the NA flywheel so you have to "shim" out the starter half that distance for the starter and flywheel gears to mesh properly.
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Old 07-19-2005, 06:58 PM   #24
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Quote:
people do it both ways...i believe that you had too but i also knwo there are people who havent. sorry to burst your bubble...
Meh, whatever... If you ever do a TT conversion you will find out... And you didn't burst my bubble...

So after this bit of mis-information I decided to go look at the first post of this thread and "critique".

#1. Before you do ANYTHING to the car, disconnect and remove the battery. Once you jack the car up, place the car on solid jackstands in the correct locations (see service manual for locations).

#2. Do not install your intercooler plumbing and A/C condenser before installing the engine/transmission. The risk of damage to them is very great while lowering the engine/tranny unit back into place.

#3. Change out as much of the rubber hoses that are a total pain in the A$$ when the engine is in place BEFORE you install it. If you are keeping EGR, replace it with new, and clean the connecting pipes out thoroughly. Replace the PCV's. All of this maintenance is simple with the motor on the stand.

#4. You are going to need the OEM recirc valves or aftermarket BOV's. These were not on the list. The turbos absolutely have to have these.

#5. If you replace the engine mounts, replace the transmission mount.

#6. Drain the oil out of the transmission BEFORE unbolting it from the engine. Unless you like having a couple of quarts of oil on you, on the floor, and all around you. Ignore this point if you love the smell of oilsorb clay and ATF or gear lube, or have an excess amount of shop rags you need to use.

#7. Before you install the new motor, disconnect the steering shaft at the u-joint. The driver's side turbo will thank you.

Quote:
i heard a while back that the N/A transmission wasn't a good idea if you plan on making some decent power with the TT engine, but Z specialist shops (like Z1 motorsports) say they have never seen anything that would confirm that the N/A transmission is weaker and they do indeed use the N/A transmission when doing a swap.
That is because they are the same unit except for the bellhousing size and the output shaft diameter. All of the internal are exactly the same.

That should do it for now. Not that I am trying to "burst your bubble" , but I HATE mis-information, especially the kind that could get somebody hurt...

Last edited by NMZXTT; 07-19-2005 at 07:30 PM.
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Old 07-19-2005, 10:25 PM   #25
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Re: Twin Turbo Swap...

maybe the differance in some people requiring grinding the bell housing and some not is, maybe nissan slightly changed the design from year to year, maybe after 93 it changed or something like that ??
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Old 07-19-2005, 10:28 PM   #26
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Re: Twin Turbo Swap...

Quote:
Originally Posted by NMZXTT
Meh, whatever... If you ever do a TT conversion you will find out... And you didn't burst my bubble...
uh oh...i get to have a little fun it seems to be...i love when people get their panties in a bunch and decide that they will try to "out-smart" someone by replacing their brain with a bloomed ego. im sure most of us have learned that most things can be completed in more than 1 different way, as did i back when i was a young tot. i am completing the conversion right now and have gotten past just about everything you have mentioned. let me re-correct your statements and explain why...now shall we continue. if you proceed to use childish behavior to presume that you are bursting my bubble, i suggest in maturing or doing some research before speaking.

to avoid confusion i will refer to you as "Obnoxiously Large Ego" in the following post. if you feel violated or ashamed in any way...i have completed my task and will go on with my job, to write a basic outline of what a Twin Turbo swap will consist of.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Obnoxiously Large Ego
#2. Do not install your intercooler plumbing and A/C condenser before installing the engine/transmission. The risk of damage to them is very great while lowering the engine/tranny unit back into place.
how do you run the risk of damaging the AC condensor or intercooler piping before installing the motor? first the AC condensor sits in front of the radiator, if you are damaging this while dropping the motor back in place...you are obviously not putting he motor in the correct place. if damaging the piping that weaves in the front support beam and out behind the front bumper, you have another serious problem.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Obnoxiously Large Ego
#3. Change out as much of the rubber hoses that are a total pain in the A$$ when the engine is in place BEFORE you install it. If you are keeping EGR, replace it with new, and clean the connecting pipes out thoroughly. Replace the PCV's. All of this maintenance is simple with the motor on the stand.
and this is a must when doing a Twin Turbo swap? this is just something that would be advised...not a must. big difference...but yes i can agree with you, taking care of any wiring that may have been clipped, hoses that may been cut, and replacment of hard to reach items should be placed while the engine is out of the car. but it is not a must and it is not part of completiong a twin turbo swap, in which this thread is entitled.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Obnoxiously Large Ego
#4. You are going to need the OEM recirc valves or aftermarket BOV's. These were not on the list. The turbos absolutely have to have these.
actually your pretty wrong...the turbos absolutely do NOT have to have these but they would be advised. i will direct you towards this statement in case your pathetic little mind ran into problems finishing the rest of the post.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The person who doesn't appreciate "obnoxiously large egos" to rudely interrupt his quest to provide valid and truthful information to his fellow Z owners, who are willing to learn and except basic ideas.
Keep in mind, I have probably forgotten a million things because I did not type this while I was doing the swap. I took the time to type this out after I did most things and before I did some things. I will edit it when necessary and when I have realized I forgot something or decide to add more details. This is more or less a guideline to help answer quite a few questions before you post a new thread. So, before you open a new thread you can ask more detailed questions instead of “What is involved in swapping in a Twin Turbo motor?” or “What parts do I need and How expensive is it to do?”
Quote:
Originally Posted by Obnoxiously Large Ego
#5. If you replace the engine mounts, replace the transmission mount.
why would someone do this when their transmission mount is in perfect conidition??? your transmission mount does not have 600+lbs of iron and metal resting on top of it, it simply gives the drivetrain some flex when movement occurs. this keeps very harsh shifts and sudden changes in the drivetrain to a minimum. i would not advise someone to waste their money on a new transmission mount unless they plan to upgrade to a urethane or solid part.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Obnoxiously Large Ego
#6. Drain the oil out of the transmission BEFORE unbolting it from the engine. Unless you like having a couple of quarts of oil on you, on the floor, and all around you. Ignore this point if you love the smell of oilsorb clay and ATF or gear lube, or have an excess amount of shop rags you need to use.
this is something i forgot to add, but a little common sense would serve just as well instead of me typing it. im sure i left out plenty of common sense things out in my post, as i do not feel it necessary for me to walk a 12 year old through the process of a Twin Turbo swap. must people that are considering this swap have some sort of besic understaning of problem solving and cars.

BTW: i did not have a problem with my automatic but i can see where it could come into play.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Obnoxiously Large Ego
#7. Before you install the new motor, disconnect the steering shaft at the u-joint. The driver's side turbo will thank you.
once again not a must, but if you are having problems with guiding the engine in evenly, you may want to do this. my motor went in fairly easy and the steering shaft did not become in a hindurence for me.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Obnoxiously Large Ego
That is because they are the same unit except for the bellhousing size and the output shaft diameter. All of the internal are exactly the same.

That should do it for now. Not that I am trying to "burst your bubble" , but I HATE mis-information, especially the kind that could get somebody hurt...

so im guessing that you have taken apart the transmission and measured and sent a sample to a laboratory, to determine that all of the gears are made out of the same metal, and you came to the conclusion that they were identical??? i doubt it, and if you did...get a life.

that statement about the manual tranmission differences and such...is coming from Robert at Z1 motorsports. the leading business in Twin Turbo Conversions and such. they and many other people have stated numerous amount of times that the N/A 5-speed transmission does not seem to take well to bigger HP numbers but it seems to work fine for a lightly modified Twin Turbo. also, do some hunting around at TwinTurbo.net. there are many people over there like you (except for the overwhelmigly large ego) that have done a conversion and used their N/A transmission and simply had the shim made and it worked fine for them. as i am sure you didnt work for Nissan during the run of 90-96 300zx and if you did, i bet you had no involvement of what steps had been taken, so i advise you to do some research or keep your mouth shut if you do not KNOW. i personally am just repeating information that i have researched and what i have told you is completely true. i have read that people have done the conversion your way and i have read that people ahve done the conversion the way i am speaking of. if you have a problem, take it up with people i am speaking of.

to wrap this up, for someone "who HATE[s] mis-information" i suggest you start by not using it yourself. i have not seen where i have told mis information but if you find it necessary to point out, im sure i will be happy to remove it for you or edit it. as i am also a person that does not like to be mis-guided so i try to answer people's questions to the best of my ability. but i also try to keep my ego from interferring with my way of thinking and problem solving.
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Old 07-19-2005, 11:09 PM   #27
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Re: Twin Turbo Swap...

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Old 07-19-2005, 11:55 PM   #28
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Re: Twin Turbo Swap...

Guys... This thread is on the edge of being closed.

I don't want to single anyone out, but chill. Seeming as there are only two people arguing in this thread, it should make it quite clear who I'm directing this towards.

Keep this civil, and keep it intelligent... The obnoxious replies end HERE. If they continue, this thread is gone.

Sorry, but I have to play Moderator here.

-Wes
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Old 07-20-2005, 12:16 AM   #29
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Re: Re: Twin Turbo Swap...

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZedEx
Guys... This thread is on the edge of being closed.

I don't want to single anyone out, but chill. Seeming as there are only two people arguing in this thread, it should make it quite clear who I'm directing this towards.

Keep this civil, and keep it intelligent... The obnoxious replies end HERE. If they continue, this thread is gone.

Sorry, but I have to play Moderator here.

-Wes
lighten up a little mod...we are just having some fun in an argumentative way. i know i am totally chilled and not upset at all...correcting an individual when they happen to be misguided does not get my temper boiling. i was just replying to his post...

anyways, if you feel it gets out of hand...feel free to do whatever you find necessary.
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Old 07-20-2005, 12:28 AM   #30
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Re: Twin Turbo Swap...

Well I'm just telling you guys, keep it from getting out of hand. Because I, as the other members, are very interested in your project.

So I'm just letting you guys know... Don't take it personal.

-Wes
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