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Old 06-25-2005, 12:11 AM   #46
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Re: Re: Re: 2006 Monte Carlo

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimster
I actually don't mind Fords newer vehicles, they're certainly better than the rubbish being churned out by GM (Well certainly the Five Hundred is, as is the Focus). GM's American division make three good cars- The Corvette, XLR and the CTS and even then the CTS is ugly and the Vette and CTS have cheap interiors, the XLR could, for all I know, but I have yet to drive one.

Also why do you think that the car which has the pins holding in the floormat break or the ashtray fall out the least means it's the better car? (Yes that's what many Americans deem to be a "fault" on thier car) A Lotus Elise or a TVR T350C is built worse than a Mustang V6, but does that make the Mustang a better car? Nope, not at all.

I can accept the facts, I KNOW the facts, I've worked in the industry before, I've had to deal with customer complaints about cars, I know that the reliability surveys are a crock as a result, according to reliability surveys a piece of plastic trim falling off is just as serious as the engine seizing up, riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight, don't even get me started on the elasticity of reliability (curtis73 actually gives a fantastic explanation of this). You on the other hand, are just some kid that THINKS he knows everything and I'm sure you would in your ideal world.

Look mate, you live in a free country, so do I, you are quite entitled to think GM is the all-conquering god, just don't expect everybody to think the same way, because they are free to differ.

Are are truly funny.....

That's all I have to say.
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Old 06-25-2005, 01:42 AM   #47
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Re: 2006 Monte Carlo

gonenuts you are obviously not caring at all about backing up your opinions. jimster and monkey have both stated lots of FACTS while you just blow them off and repeat your opinion that GM is king.
im not an american car hater by a LONG shot but you really need to research and know what your talking about before you speak otherwise you will just look ignorant.
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Old 06-25-2005, 07:48 AM   #48
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Re: Re: 2006 Monte Carlo

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Originally Posted by gonenuts15792
I know now why I haven't visited these forums. Nobody knows the facts, about anything. it should be called importforums.com every american car is evil and if you happen to be a fan or support an american car company you're evil.
I agree with you that those forums are crap, and I am from Detroit as well I have family that works for Ford, GM, and Chryler. I only buy american and will continue to do so. It's just that more often than not GM recently has been nothing more than a dissapointment to me. They make nothing I want save the new 06 Vette. They continue to make bland front drive crap and other ugly cars. I honestly think they've done great with the platforms and chassis of Cadillac yet all the new Cadillacs look like shit! Chevy trucks have the ugly ass Avalanche front end and the Colorado while a descent truck INHO looks like well another ugly GM design. Monte Carlo looks OK yet is a front drive POS, and I could never get excited about a Cobalt (or a Neon, or Focus to be fair) just not into little cars. Look at the Pontiac Vibe it looks just like one of Toyotas uglier cars the Matrix, oh wait it is a Matrix! Made right down the street from my house. The GTO was brought back and I thought hell yeah rear drive great driveline but then it looks like a grand am just plain bland. They need to give it a distinct style. Though I am happy about the Solstice and the Saturn whatever they call it, rear drive with a solid new 4cyl. ecotec. Put the supercharged ecotec in there IMHO nice ride. Other than that it's just blanned cars nobody wants.
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Old 06-25-2005, 07:20 PM   #49
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Re: 2006 Monte Carlo

All you people saying GM builds bland cars need to take a look at honda and toyota, they don't exactly get my blod pumping. Hell honda doesn't even have a V8. Their truck is a joke, and toyotas trucks aren't any better. GM only sells the most trucks and SUVs of any other manufacturers. They are winning awards for best quality and reliability, and are ranking above average on many fronts. And another thing not everyone wants RWD. I'm sick of saying the same damn things over, only to be ignored anyway and have Jimster who is obviously just as biased as me towards vehicles spin the facts. You want facts, and a real discussion about GM cars and other vehicles, head over to www.gminsidenews.com.
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Old 06-25-2005, 07:31 PM   #50
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Re: Re: 2006 Monte Carlo

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Originally Posted by gonenuts15792
All you people saying GM builds bland cars need to take a look at honda and toyota, they don't exactly get my blod pumping. Hell honda doesn't even have a V8. Their truck is a joke, and toyotas trucks aren't any better. GM only sells the most trucks and SUVs of any other manufacturers. They are winning awards for best quality and reliability, and are ranking above average on many fronts. And another thing not everyone wants RWD. I'm sick of saying the same damn things over, only to be ignored anyway and have Jimster who is obviously just as biased as me towards vehicles spin the facts. You want facts, and a real discussion about GM cars and other vehicles, head over to www.gminsidenews.com.
So for a real discussion about GM cars we should head over to a GM biased site!? Sorry but people who buy a Camaro, or mustang were not the same people who would buy a Dodge Daytona Chrysler learned that the hard way in the 80's. Not everyone wants RWD for certain cars though they do. Luxury car buyers are not willing to spend $40,000 on an extended economy car chassis with all the bells and whistles. GM even realized that and returned Cadillac to rear drive. I don't know what awards they are winning left and right. As their quality levels have been on a constant slide. As far as blandness goes you're right Toyota and Honda both make bland cars too. Many new cars period are ugly or bland! Honda's truck is a joke it's a truck for those who don't want a real truck. The Tundra isn't that strong either, and the Nissan is ugly, yet honestly it's the second best truck in the fullsize market behind the F150 IMHO. GM is second in truck sales and yes they are number one in SUV sales (fullsize anyway). Yet you talk about Toyota being bland and their blandest vehicle is the Matrix, which GM turns around and sell as a Pontiac Vibe. You can get mad and tell everyone they are stupid for their opinions, yet sales at GM continue to decline and something is wrong there. Denial doesn't help that, and the fact that they just layed off 25,000 proud GM employees.
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Old 06-25-2005, 09:17 PM   #51
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Re: Re: 2006 Monte Carlo

I think Filthy Sanchez put it very well, but I'll certainly add that Toyota trucks are probably the best in the world. As far as I know, the Tacoma is 99% the same as the what the rest of the world knows as a Toyota Hilux, the most reliable vehicle in the world bar none, a car favoured in the Middle East/Africa for the unbeleivable strength of thier diesel motors (There's many around parts of Africa with over 1,000,000 km's on them). Remember what they did to one on top gear? They crashed it into a tree, it got swept away to sea, it got dropped off a crane among other things and still started after all that.


Show me a Chevy/GMC pickup that is held in the same regard.


Oh and by the way, Mr Nuts, American cars are imports, this is a global forum, act like it.
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Old 06-25-2005, 10:56 PM   #52
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Re: 2006 Monte Carlo

this possibly highlights the biggest differences and possibly the worth of opinions and facts/truth.

opinions.
you're entitled to them but they may not be truth.

facts/truth.
no amount of opinion is going to change them.
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Old 06-26-2005, 04:53 AM   #53
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Re: Re: Re: 2006 Monte Carlo

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Originally Posted by Jimster
I think Filthy Sanchez put it very well, but I'll certainly add that Toyota trucks are probably the best in the world. As far as I know, the Tacoma is 99% the same as the what the rest of the world knows as a Toyota Hilux, the most reliable vehicle in the world bar none, a car favoured in the Middle East/Africa for the unbeleivable strength of thier diesel motors (There's many around parts of Africa with over 1,000,000 km's on them). Remember what they did to one on top gear? They crashed it into a tree, it got swept away to sea, it got dropped off a crane among other things and still started after all that.


Show me a Chevy/GMC pickup that is held in the same regard.


Oh and by the way, Mr Nuts, American cars are imports, this is a global forum, act like it.

Thanks Jimster,though what I mean by that is if you take all the full size trucks in America as I don't know about the rest of the world (my apologies) and right now the F150 is easily the best truck there. Engine wise I have no problem admitting Toyota's reliability factor. I have no doubt that you could physically abuse the Toyota and it would still start. It's just that a friend of mines father bought a couple for his construction business and they couldn't do half of what he does with the Ford's he now has. Not that I'm ripping on "imports" (I use that term to refer to Toyota and Nissan in this US market) I think the Nissan Titan is very close to the F150, I would say Dodge would be 3rd and you could take your pick amongst the Toyota or Chevy (GMC). Unlike Nuts though I would never claim the Toyota to be trash! The reliability factor alone is above all others, I just don't think as far as chassis strength and toughness goes Toyota didn't bring their A game to this fight.
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Old 06-26-2005, 02:42 PM   #54
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Re: Re: Re: 2006 Monte Carlo

Quote:
Originally Posted by Filthy Sanchez
So for a real discussion about GM cars we should head over to a GM biased site!? Sorry but people who buy a Camaro, or mustang were not the same people who would buy a Dodge Daytona Chrysler learned that the hard way in the 80's. Not everyone wants RWD for certain cars though they do. Luxury car buyers are not willing to spend $40,000 on an extended economy car chassis with all the bells and whistles. GM even realized that and returned Cadillac to rear drive. I don't know what awards they are winning left and right. As their quality levels have been on a constant slide. As far as blandness goes you're right Toyota and Honda both make bland cars too. Many new cars period are ugly or bland! Honda's truck is a joke it's a truck for those who don't want a real truck. The Tundra isn't that strong either, and the Nissan is ugly, yet honestly it's the second best truck in the fullsize market behind the F150 IMHO. GM is second in truck sales and yes they are number one in SUV sales (fullsize anyway). Yet you talk about Toyota being bland and their blandest vehicle is the Matrix, which GM turns around and sell as a Pontiac Vibe. You can get mad and tell everyone they are stupid for their opinions, yet sales at GM continue to decline and something is wrong there. Denial doesn't help that, and the fact that they just layed off 25,000 proud GM employees.
I'm simply saying go to GMInsidenews to research the future vehicles that will be coming from GM.

There is a market for both RWD and FWD. GM has many RWD vehicles in the pipeline, including a Camaro like vehicle.

I don't know where you got your quality facts but you may want to double check, GMs reliability and quality scores have been increasing, not decreasing.

In terms of plant quality:
Quote:
Of Toyota's eight plants, their best quality ranking is 16th. Of the top 10 plants for quality, GM has eight of the top 10 and four of the top five.
I also find this very funny:
Quote:
GM's lowest quality-rated vehicle is the Pontiac Vibe, assembled in California by - you guessed it - Toyota.
Source for above information

Source for information below

Quote:
Toyota and General Motors topped the auto industry in terms of the quality of their vehicles sold in the US market, according to a survey of new owners by JD Power and Associates.
Quote:
Japanese automaker Toyota earned 10 of the 18 top model awards while five GM vehicles were rated best in their class.
Also in the latest long term reliability Study GM ranked above average right up there with toyota:



It's funny how you say toyota and honda vehicles are bland, but yet you also criticize GM for making bland cars, while you don't mention toyota's and honda's bland styling as something bad with the design.

GM sales may be declining in the U.S. (in june their sales are up to over a 30% marketshare), but in canada and other key markets like China and India GM continues to improve sales. I believe GMs sales are growing in 6 out of the 7 key sales areas in the World.

As far as the lay offs, GMs employees get some of the best health coverage in the world the cost of the coverage is more than $2,000 per GM vehicle, more than twice the amount that toyota has to deal with. The unions refuse to negotiate with GM so this is what happens GM has to cut costs. GM workers are some of the highest paid in the industry.
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Old 06-26-2005, 03:03 PM   #55
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Re: Re: Re: 2006 Monte Carlo

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimster
I think Filthy Sanchez put it very well, but I'll certainly add that Toyota trucks are probably the best in the world. As far as I know, the Tacoma is 99% the same as the what the rest of the world knows as a Toyota Hilux, the most reliable vehicle in the world bar none, a car favoured in the Middle East/Africa for the unbeleivable strength of thier diesel motors (There's many around parts of Africa with over 1,000,000 km's on them). Remember what they did to one on top gear? They crashed it into a tree, it got swept away to sea, it got dropped off a crane among other things and still started after all that.


Show me a Chevy/GMC pickup that is held in the same regard.


Oh and by the way, Mr Nuts, American cars are imports, this is a global forum, act like it.

Jimster that post right there proves you have your head farther up toyotas ass than I do GM.

The Tacoma is a joke for a truck, it can't do anything that Ford or GM trucks can do, it's got a wimpy engine, the interior did not impress me one bit. The tundra is the same thing, the engine is wimpy, and it can't tow are haul much at all. I have a friend that has a tundra, he got bad gas one time and he had to have his whole engine rebuilt, I was getting the same gas with my Suburban and hmmm what do you know, I don't have a problem with it at all. What trucks and SUVs are bringing in top marks? That's right Ford and GM. In the heavy duty segment the GMC Sierra 2500HD is considered to be the best. The Small block GM engines are considered to be the best engine designs of all time, and they last forever. toyota has a long way to go before they are even half as good as the trucks offered by Ford or GM, and when the new GMT900 trucks arrive in 2006 toyota will have to play catchup even more. I never see a toyota towing a 30 foot trailer, or for that matter hauling much of anything either. But yet it's odd to see a GM or Ford truck around here without a trailer being towed behind ir or something being hauled in the back. The engines toyota offers are wimpy compared to the V8s offered by GM. It's funny to how toyota is supposed to be the greenest car company in the world, but yet their trucks and SUVs with smaller less powerful engines don't get as good of gas mileage as the bigger SUVs and trucks offered by GM that make more HP and torque than the trucks offered by toyota.

Oh and the toyota getting dropped doesn't mean anything. I don't know if you are fimiliar with the show mythbusters but on one show there was this older Cadillac that was put through some similiar test and it still ran. Hell the Cadillac engine didn't die so they took it out and put sugar, bleach, lead, paint, anything they could think of in the oil and gas, and it still ran. It took adding massive amount of bleach to the engine before it started to smoke, and it still ran for awhile before starting to smoke and then finally quiting. Don't forget this engine was from the 70s too when GM was supposedly making junk cars. So yeah woo the toyota can survive a crash, getting dropped and getting some salt water in the interior, just about any truck or car can handle abuse like that, most of it's to the body and not the engine itself. Do you know who sells the most big boat engines in the world, yup you guess it GM, engines on boats are subjected to some of the harshes environments around and the Small Block GM engines are the prefferred for this type of application too.
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Old 06-26-2005, 03:17 PM   #56
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Re: 2006 Monte Carlo

and as someone else pointed out, 'problems' reported vary greatly depending on the brand and their customers.
squeeky cabin = a problem reported.
engine failing = a problem reported.

hmm, so let's see, GM workers are the best paid and have the most expensive (which doesn't always mean the best) coverage. so when GM wants to cut costs and the unions refuse to negotiate (which they have every right to decline), they choose to simply fire employees instead of looking into their other accounts/expenditure. am i the only one who finds this practice more than slightly dubious?
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Old 06-26-2005, 04:02 PM   #57
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Re: Re: 2006 Monte Carlo

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Originally Posted by drunken monkey
and as someone else pointed out, 'problems' reported vary greatly depending on the brand and their customers.
squeeky cabin = a problem reported.
engine failing = a problem reported.

hmm, so let's see, GM workers are the best paid and have the most expensive (which doesn't always mean the best) coverage. so when GM wants to cut costs and the unions refuse to negotiate (which they have every right to decline), they choose to simply fire employees instead of looking into their other accounts/expenditure. am i the only one who finds this practice more than slightly dubious?

Yes they do vary greatly that's why the surveys JD Powers sends out takes that into account. That's why trim problems and squeaks don't account for as many points off as a powertrain failure. Either way, toyota, gm and every other manufacturer has duds. As I pointed out with my friends rebuilt toyota engine.

It's called business my friend, every company has layoffs. Healthcare costs are one of the biggest problems at GM with the costs projected to triple within the next few years, something needs to be done and the unions won't allow it, this is the next best step.
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Old 06-26-2005, 04:09 PM   #58
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Re: 2006 Monte Carlo

OK, just an FYI to everyone who keeps citing JD Power and Associates: all of their stuff is complete bull. Ask anyone in the industry.
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Old 06-26-2005, 04:25 PM   #59
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Re: 2006 Monte Carlo

'green' doesn't only mean better mpg.
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Old 06-26-2005, 06:47 PM   #60
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Re: Re: 2006 Monte Carlo

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Originally Posted by ec437
OK, just an FYI to everyone who keeps citing JD Power and Associates: all of their stuff is complete bull. Ask anyone in the industry.
Every Survey is bull depending on who you ask. JD Power is one of the better surveys.
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