Civic occasionally no-starts when warm..thows CEL 16 (Fuel Injector System)

[annointed]

My '88 Civic hatchback (1.5L, 4 speed manual, base model) has recently started having a very intermittent problem. Every once in a while, it doesn't want to start. It only seems to happen when the motor has reached operating temp, and you shut it off for a couple of minutes, such as when filling up w/gas, or running into the convenience store. Normally, it starts right back up, but every once in a while, it just cranks until the Check Engine light illumines. If you're persistent, and wait 5-10 seconds between cranking attempts, it's always kicked over eventually, but it often takes 3-10 attempts.
The code is #16, which is "Fuel Injector System" which is apparently "defective circuit or unplugged/defective fuel injector." This appears to be the only fuel related code for '88-91 model years, so I'm guessing it could range from anything from fuel pump to injector...its just strange that it does not appear to affect drivability, it just occasionally affects start-up.

Anyone experience a similar problem? What was the resolution?

FWIW, the car often idles high, which it never did until my friend borrowed the car, and said he adjusted the idle screw. (where is that thing, anyway). The car also sometimes lapses into a fluctuating idle, which appears to be a common problem with the Fast Idle Valve, from what I've read on these forums.

Thanks!

Mark

[animal66]

I had that excact same code get thrown today....16 and 7. It even does the exact same thing. and the idling likes to go up and down too.....i dont know...ive already asked about it....no help yet

[annointed]

Originally Posted by animal66

I had that excact same code get thrown today....16 and 7. It even does the exact same thing. and the idling likes to go up and down too.....i dont know...ive already asked about it....no help yet

Well, I did a 4 hour search and research session back in September while my WRX was getting a tranny swap and I was driving the Civic daily, because the idle issue was REALLY annoying me. There are several possiblities, but 90% of the time, its the Fast Idle Valve, which can be removed and cleaned out. Some people were able to reset the ecu and eliminate the problem as well, at least for a while. I took the easy way out, and reset it, and it only does the idle dance occasionally now. Sometime I'll get around to really fixing the problem, but I'm too busy these days.

Code 7 is Engine Coolant Temperature Sensor. Chances are, the sensor is either unplugged, or going probably just going bad. I'd reset the codes, and see if they both come back.

Good luck, and keep me posted if you find out anything new.

Mark

[GeneHondaGM]

Originally Posted by annointed

My '88 Civic hatchback (1.5L, 4 speed manual, base model) has recently started having a very intermittent problem. Every once in a while, it doesn't want to start. It only seems to happen when the motor has reached operating temp, and you shut it off for a couple of minutes, such as when filling up w/gas, or running into the convenience store. Normally, it starts right back up, but every once in a while, it just cranks until the Check Engine light illumines. If you're persistent, and wait 5-10 seconds between cranking attempts, it's always kicked over eventually, but it often takes 3-10 attempts.
The code is #16, which is "Fuel Injector System" which is apparently "defective circuit or unplugged/defective fuel injector." This appears to be the only fuel related code for '88-91 model years, so I'm guessing it could range from anything from fuel pump to injector...its just strange that it does not appear to affect drivability, it just occasionally affects start-up.

Anyone experience a similar problem? What was the resolution?

I had a similar problem with my 1990 CRX. Sometimes I'd take short trips, park the car and when I came back to go it would not start. Wait ten minutes and I'd be good to go.

I tried replacing the Igniter ($100.00), cap and rotor, spark plugs, wires, etc. Once I even changed the cap in the field. By the time I changed the cap the car was good to go - I could have accomplished the same thing by having a soda and a short walk.

Here's the deal....

Honda "retrofitted" injectors onto carburated cars. This meant that they had to add additional electrical and electronic circuitry to the system. Honda engineers added an additional relay asssembly to control the power to the injectors. The relay assembly contains a circuit board that joins it to the wiring harness.

Sometimes this circuit board will develop "cracks" in the solder of the joints that will "open" when the board is operating. Once the board cools down the cracks will close, allowing you to start the car again. Until this happens the system will not power up the injectors and you won't go anywhere in that car.

You need to check the relay. I don't recall this relay's name but I know roughly where I was on my car. In my CRX it was located behind the "change bin", which is located on the far left hand side of the dashboard. You need to reach around behind the bin to find the relay.

The relay itself is about an inch and a half across and maybe two inches high. In my car it was black and I think it was made by Masushita but please don't quote me on that.

Once you remove the relay you can remove a "cap". Examine the solder joints. In my CRX the cracks in the joints were quite visible.

I took the relay to work and "reflowed" the joints with fresh solder. Since that time I have never had any issues with delayed starts.

In order to effect the repair you will need a soldering iron or gun and rosin core solder. You need only heat up the joints, applying fresh solder.

Alternately you can go to a parts store and pay a good chunk of change for a new relay. Probably be cheaper to buy a soldering iron and some solder, which you can keep for other uses.

Hope that this helps.

Gene

[FrodoGT]

Its called the main Relay, and its far more than just a retrofitted carb solution man. That relay is what makes it all happen, without that you get no fuel..no anything really.

[GeneHondaGM]

Originally Posted by FrodoGT

Its called the main Relay, and its far more than just a retrofitted carb solution man. That relay is what makes it all happen, without that you get no fuel..no anything really.

Yeah, that was it's name! Main Relay. I recall that some other circuits passed through it but it's been a while. Nothing fails like success....

Like your sig, it's what I tell the guys at work. Since we can't be cheap we have to be fast and reliable.

Gene

[FrodoGT]

But anyway, yes, thats exactly what happens to the main relay that causes it to no-start when it gets hot...very common thing, you can either repair or replace, your choice.

[guitaristz]

Just wanted to say thank you.
This was the exact issue that had my 1991 Civic intermittent when warm, then now at the start of summer, not start at all.

Pulled and resoldered the relay and bam, worked 100%. Code 16 "Injector" disappeared too