please help!! etc engine failsafe mode in lsv8 03'

[trev0006]

Go to another mechanic.

[Rardy]

I just got my '03 lincoln ls v8 fixed the other day & looked up this error just to see what others had found. After receiving the "etc engine failsafe mode" error, i took it in & there were 3 bad coils. I went ahead & had them replace all the coils with all new plugs & boots as well (runs GREAT again!!). Also, I had to replace the battery a few weeks before this problem came about (FYI). I am in no way a "car guy", I actually do PC repair, but just hoped maybe this could help someone else!

Many of you offer great advice, keep up the great work!

[momssts]

my 2003 LSV8 is being fixed at the local Lincoln dealer as I write this.
exact same problem and the solution is Fuel Throttle Valve, installed
$900 plus towing fee. The service manager stated this is a problem
due to ethnol in the gas...............and the part is on a 3 week back
order leading me to believe this is A REAL PROBLEM with the LS

the coils that have been mentioned in other postings are on recall and
repaired free of cost through Lincoln Service, so far I have had 6 replaced.

[shorod]

Fuel Throttle Valve? Never heard of that. Are they referring to the fuel pressure sensor? The amount of fuel to the engine is controlled by pulse width modulation (PWM) of the fuel pump voltage, and the pulse width is derived from the fuel pressure as measured by the fuel pressure sensor.

Also, the LS requires premium fuel which should have low ethanol content, so I wouldn't expect ethanol to be the issue unless the car has received a consistent diet of non-premium fuel.

-Rod

[momssts]

Originally Posted by shorod

Fuel Throttle Valve? Never heard of that. Are they referring to the fuel pressure sensor? The amount of fuel to the engine is controlled by pulse width modulation (PWM) of the fuel pump voltage, and the pulse width is derived from the fuel pressure as measured by the fuel pressure sensor.

Also, the LS requires premium fuel which should have low ethanol content, so I wouldn't expect ethanol to be the issue unless the car has received a consistent diet of non-premium fuel.

-Rod

I was told by the mechanic at Lincoln, that it is a valve that opens and closes and with the ethonol (I use only less than 7%), it will cause it to build matter up and eventually break. I looked up fuel throttle valve on google, and
it explained a lot more than I can LOL. I understood that it is connected to the gas pedal...........I was pulling onto the hwy and it
just dropped to 2200 rpm and said "etc engine failsafe mode" and alternated to "service parking brake" I crept home at 25 mph.
I was most distressed by lincoln stating that the part was on a 3 week back order. We did get the part through an EMERGENCY order. It cost
$496 the rest of the cost installation.

[shorod]

Interesting. Did if fix the problem?

I wonder if they were referring to the throttle body, which on your car is electronic. There is a travel sensor on the accelerator pedal that opens and closes the throttle body electrically. The throttle body meters the amount of air allowed to enter the intake, doesn't really have anything to do with the type of fuel used. I tried searching Google for "Fuel throttle valve" (in quotes) and received no exact matches.

I'm not suggesting that the dealer didn't perform a repair to fix your car, I just want to understand what they did so the next time someone has a similar issue to yours they have an idea what it might take to fix it. Did the dealership tell you what diagnostic codes were stored? Since you received the "failsafe" indicator there should have been stored codes.

-Rod

[momssts]

Originally Posted by shorod

Interesting. Did if fix the problem?

-Rod

Rod we pick up the car this afternoon. I will let you know, the entire bill break down of cost and parts..............later ginger

[momssts]

Originally Posted by momssts

Rod we pick up the car this afternoon. I will let you know, the entire bill break down of cost and parts..............later ginger

OK the car runs like new. here is what I have

1 - 3W4Z-9E926-AD Throttle Body $416.33
1 - FA-1679 Element Asy 23.79
1 - 6150 Injector Kit 23.00

Job Total Labor & Parts $740.12

special freight 30.00

Hope this helps..........ginger

[shorod]

Okay, they replaced the throttle body, not a fuel throttle valve. That makes more sense.

Based on what others have posted in this thread, the parts the dealer replaced will probably fix the issue.

-Rod

[momssts]

Originally Posted by shorod

Okay, they replaced the throttle body, not a fuel throttle valve. That makes more sense.

Based on what others have posted in this thread, the parts the dealer replaced will probably fix the issue.

-Rod

I have put you in my favorites, it appears you have more knowledge than the lincoln dealer. I relayed to you what he told me, but bottom line, you had better information. Whats up with these COILS lincoln has? I now have had 8 replaced. Lincoln will only do 2 at a time and they have replaced 2 & 4 twice now in the past 18 months. Do you know why they go bad? I realize they are a recall and no charge to replace but very inconvient. my ls has 63,000 miles and a new transmission at 59,000
we are not pleased with this $52,000 car..............ginger

[shorod]

Ford has a pretty extensive Technical Service Bulletin (TSB) on troubleshooting coils. They claim a lot of coils are being replaced when the coils aren't the real problem. I tend to agree with them. A lot of people see a code of "Misfire on cylinder #3" and automatically replace the coil without confirming the coil is bad or repairing the reason the coil failed to begin with -- root cause. In their defense, many owners would not want to pay for the diagnostic fee to determine root cause or go without their car for 3 or more days while the shop ran through all the troubleshooting. It's a bit of a catch-22 for the shop.

On the earlier LS's there was a problem with the valve cover gasket sets that would allow oil to seep into the spark plug wells and cause the coils to misfire through the oil to the head rather than through the spark plug to the head. I'm a bit unclear as to when the new gaskets were implemented, some say mid-2001 model year, other's say mid-2002, and I think I even saw someone that had evidence early model year 2003 vehicles were effected. Hopefully if when the dealer removed the coils they checked for evidence of oil on the coil boots.

These coils are also mounted directly on aluminum heads. The coils have VERY fine enamel-coated wire that is soldered to terminals. The aluminum heads can transfer a lot of heat to the coils and the very fine wire is, as you might imagine, quite fragile, even when potted. Even in 2003, the Coil on Plug (CoP) method was not common. The person who bought the Lincoln LS new also paid for modern technology, and it isn't unusual for newer technology to have a few bugs to work through.

The good news is your V8 is actually easier to work on the the V6 in the LS. If you are willing to tackle things like coils yourself, you can save a lot of money on both parts and labor if you have the time and tools, or have an acquaintance that works for beer.

-Rod

[momssts]

Originally Posted by shorod

Ford has a pretty extensive Technical Service Bulletin (TSB) on troubleshooting coils. They claim a lot of coils are being replaced when the coils aren't the real problem. I tend to agree with them. A lot of people see a code of "Misfire on cylinder #3" and automatically replace the coil without confirming the coil is bad or repairing the reason the coil failed to begin with -- root cause. In their defense, many owners would not want to pay for the diagnostic fee to determine root cause or go without their car for 3 or more days while the shop ran through all the troubleshooting. It's a bit of a catch-22 for the shop.

On the earlier LS's there was a problem with the valve cover gasket sets that would allow oil to seep into the spark plug wells and cause the coils to misfire through the oil to the head rather than through the spark plug to the head. I'm a bit unclear as to when the new gaskets were implemented, some say mid-2001 model year, other's say mid-2002, and I think I even saw someone that had evidence early model year 2003 vehicles were effected. Hopefully if when the dealer removed the coils they checked for evidence of oil on the coil boots.

These coils are also mounted directly on aluminum heads. The coils have VERY fine enamel-coated wire that is soldered to terminals. The aluminum heads can transfer a lot of heat to the coils and the very fine wire is, as you might imagine, quite fragile, even when potted. Even in 2003, the Coil on Plug (CoP) method was not common. The person who bought the Lincoln LS new also paid for modern technology, and it isn't unusual for newer technology to have a few bugs to work through.

The good news is your V8 is actually easier to work on the the V6 in the LS. If you are willing to tackle things like coils yourself, you can save a lot of money on both parts and labor if you have the time and tools, or have an acquaintance that works for beer.

-Rod

we have had 8 coils replaced they are on recall...zero cost to us.
the only problems is lincoln will only replace 2 at a time so we were told
to just keep bringing it back. You are very knowledgable, I appreciate that. will keep in touch. ginger

[joegr]

The letter describing Ford's warranty extension on the V8 (V6 not covered) coils indicates that the problem is due to high voltage breakdown of the epoxy the coils are potted with. I can assure you that most of the coils replaced on these cars are indeed bad and that they failed for internal reasons only.

"only problems is lincoln will only replace 2 at a time "
This is not true. There is no such Ford or Lincoln policy. I have had more than two replaced at a time, and the letter makes no mention of a limit of two per time.
This must be some crazy policy of your local Lincoln dealer. I suggest you find a better dealer.

BTW, 03 throttle body failure is not unheard of. However you should be aware that sometimes failure of a coil (usually #4) can cause a false failure code for the throttle body.

Service managers almost never know anything about cars, that would explain the nonsense about a fuel valve.

"Even in 2003, the Coil on Plug (CoP) method was not common." That's funny. Ford was using them on almost all of their V8s by 1999. COP failures on the 4.6L engines are rare.

[shorod]

Originally Posted by joegr

"Even in 2003, the Coil on Plug (CoP) method was not common." That's funny. Ford was using them on almost all of their V8s by 1999. COP failures on the 4.6L engines are rare.

Sure, and the V8 SHO as early as 1996 had CoP, but the percentage of cars using CoP even in 2003 is small. Spark plug wires have been around for probably over 100 years and they still aren't perfect. My point is you can't expect advancements in technology without some learning curve. Often the high end vehicles become the testbeds for technology, you kind of need to expect some issues.

-Rod

[momssts]

Originally Posted by shorod

Sure, and the V8 SHO as early as 1996 had CoP, but the percentage of cars using CoP even in 2003 is small. Spark plug wires have been around for probably over 100 years and they still aren't perfect. My point is you can't expect advancements in technology without some learning curve. Often the high end vehicles become the testbeds for technology, you kind of need to expect some issues.

-Rod

I'm back with the SAME PROBLEM..............etc engine failsafe mode,
the car is back in the shop this am...................
will report back with update....ginger