Automotive Forums .com - the leading automotive community online! Automotive Forums .com - the leading automotive community online!
Automotive Forums .com - the leading automotive community online! 
-
Latest | 0 Rplys
Go Back   Automotive Forums .com Car Chat > Car Audio
Car Audio Do you live in your car? Then you need to be able to listen to some high-quality music.
Reply Show Printable Version Show Printable Version | Email this Page Email this Page | Subscription Subscribe to this Thread
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 02-17-2004, 03:57 AM   #1
amdsoldier
AF Enthusiast
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: P-Town, Oregon
Posts: 208
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Smile Best Sound Proofing Material?

Okay I know this kind of thread may have been done before, but I couldn't find a good one in the search(es) I made.

Anyway when I bought the car the guy put in some crazy expensive sound proofing material, I forget the name, but costed $1000 to do he claims. However there is still some places I'd like to cover and well not sure what to go with.

I'd like to add more deadenign material on the floor, maybe the doors and where they rear speakers used to be. I don't have rear speakers and so theres nothing behind the 6x9 speaker grills and most of my car noise is coming from there, lol of all places. So I wanna somehow also fill that up and make it look nice or well not noticeable anyway through the grills.

Any suggestions guys? Theres a lot of stuff on ebay, not sure which to go with though. Thanks in advance.
amdsoldier is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2004, 10:20 AM   #2
sr20de4evr
AF Enthusiast
 
sr20de4evr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: San Antonio, TX, Texas
Posts: 3,100
Thanks: 0
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Re: Best Sound Proofing Material?

I stand behind SecondSkin, best stuff I've used to date, better than Fatmat and edead IMO
www.secondskinaudio.com
__________________
'01 Black Sentra SE
Weapon-R intake, HS header, HKS catback, ES motor mounts, B&M short shifter, Tein coilovers
Alpine 9835, Adire Koda 6.1, Adire Brahma 15, Arc 2100cxl, Linear Power 2.2hv, Cadence ZRS-8

'05 Silver WRX STi
Injen SES Downpipe, HKS Carbon-Ti catback, Cobb Stage 2 Tune, TiC Super Shifter, TiC Klunk Killer, Tein springs, Nitto NT555R Drag Radials
sr20de4evr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2004, 08:22 PM   #3
second skin rep
AF Newbie
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 7
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Send a message via MSN to second skin rep


Thans for the plug!!!

Go over to www.caraudioforum.com and run a search on these words

edead
fatmat
rammat
brown bread
second skin

That should keep you busy for a while.

feel free to let me know if you have any questions
service@secondskinaudio.com
I am happy to help regardless of which you chose

ANT
second skin rep is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2004, 04:09 PM   #4
Haibane
AF Fanatic
 
Haibane's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 2,416
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Send a message via AIM to Haibane
Re: Best Sound Proofing Material?

sr20de4evr, what about dynamat, any better?
__________________
www.cloudcity.deviantart.com
Haibane is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2004, 04:27 PM   #5
sr20de4evr
AF Enthusiast
 
sr20de4evr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: San Antonio, TX, Texas
Posts: 3,100
Thanks: 0
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Re: Best Sound Proofing Material?

Never used it, but according to independent tests it's about the same as brownbread, rammat, secondskin, etc, only twice the cost (or more in several cases). To me, dynamat is the JL of deadening. It's good, but there's stuff out there that is atleast as good for cheaper.
__________________
'01 Black Sentra SE
Weapon-R intake, HS header, HKS catback, ES motor mounts, B&M short shifter, Tein coilovers
Alpine 9835, Adire Koda 6.1, Adire Brahma 15, Arc 2100cxl, Linear Power 2.2hv, Cadence ZRS-8

'05 Silver WRX STi
Injen SES Downpipe, HKS Carbon-Ti catback, Cobb Stage 2 Tune, TiC Super Shifter, TiC Klunk Killer, Tein springs, Nitto NT555R Drag Radials
sr20de4evr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2004, 03:20 AM   #6
SilverJLEclipse
AF Newbie
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Irvine, California
Posts: 32
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Send a message via AIM to SilverJLEclipse Send a message via Yahoo to SilverJLEclipse
Re: Best Sound Proofing Material?

brown bread is weak, check out the competition circuits majority of the top competitors use dynamat. more money but do it right once.
Some numbers of accoustic loss (max is considered 1)
dynamat extreme second skin
0.081 @ +14F (-10C)
0.240 @ +32F (+0C) .16@ 32F
0.257 @ +50F (+10C) .19@ 50F
0.417 @ +68F (+20C) .29@ 68F
0.259 @ +86F (+30C) .20@ 86F
0.194 @ +104F (+40C) .14@ 104F
0.140 @ +122F (+50C)
0.094 @ +140F (+60C)
Dynamat Extreme $259 36sq ft
Second skin $139 50sq ft
The difference is large in the usable temp range, your choice
SilverJLEclipse is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2004, 12:17 PM   #7
sr20de4evr
AF Enthusiast
 
sr20de4evr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: San Antonio, TX, Texas
Posts: 3,100
Thanks: 0
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Re: Re: Best Sound Proofing Material?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverJLEclipse
brown bread is weak, check out the competition circuits majority of the top competitors use dynamat. more money but do it right once.
Some numbers of accoustic loss (max is considered 1)
dynamat extreme second skin
0.081 @ +14F (-10C)
0.240 @ +32F (+0C) .16@ 32F
0.257 @ +50F (+10C) .19@ 50F
0.417 @ +68F (+20C) .29@ 68F
0.259 @ +86F (+30C) .20@ 86F
0.194 @ +104F (+40C) .14@ 104F
0.140 @ +122F (+50C)
0.094 @ +140F (+60C)
Dynamat Extreme $259 36sq ft
Second skin $139 50sq ft
The difference is large in the usable temp range, your choice

you're also comparing the lowest level SS to the top level dynamat
Since Ant is a member here, we get secondskin 40% off with free shipping, that means that 50sqft of damilifier is only $84 with free shipping. That's $1.68/sqft, compared to the dynamat xtreme which is $7.19/sqft. If you want to compare something closer, look at the STFU-80 compared to the dynamat xtreme. The STFU is better, and is still only $3.75/sqft. You could have 160mils of deadening by getting the STFU for the same price as 45mils with the Dynamat. It is mass afterall that deadens your panels, when you're comparing 2 deadeners that weigh the same, the only differences are adhesiveness, smell, and ease of application. I speak from experience when I say that STFU-80 has absolutely no smell, it's insanely easy to install, and it will rip off your paint if you try to take it off.
__________________
'01 Black Sentra SE
Weapon-R intake, HS header, HKS catback, ES motor mounts, B&M short shifter, Tein coilovers
Alpine 9835, Adire Koda 6.1, Adire Brahma 15, Arc 2100cxl, Linear Power 2.2hv, Cadence ZRS-8

'05 Silver WRX STi
Injen SES Downpipe, HKS Carbon-Ti catback, Cobb Stage 2 Tune, TiC Super Shifter, TiC Klunk Killer, Tein springs, Nitto NT555R Drag Radials
sr20de4evr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2004, 11:02 PM   #8
SilverJLEclipse
AF Newbie
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Irvine, California
Posts: 32
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Send a message via AIM to SilverJLEclipse Send a message via Yahoo to SilverJLEclipse
Re: Best Sound Proofing Material?

actually, check their site, the accoustic loss is higher on the damplifier than the STFU-80. Also, mass is not the key to sound deadening, the ability to transfer vibration energy to heat energy and disperse it is. If you get a deal on this that's great, don't claim that "pound for pound" so to speak it is better if you can't support it. I also get dynamat wholesale and you can't beat that!
SilverJLEclipse is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-2004, 02:22 AM   #9
sr20de4evr
AF Enthusiast
 
sr20de4evr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: San Antonio, TX, Texas
Posts: 3,100
Thanks: 0
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Re: Best Sound Proofing Material?

Did you just say their function is to turn vibration into heat?
Dude, it's a mass loader, they're called that for a reason. You ever had something vibrating, like a bell. You grab it and it shuts up, same deal here. More mass = more vibration dampening, it's as simple as that. If you want to get into acoustical dampening that's a completely different area, and is not the function of damplifier, STFU-80, dynamat xtreme, brownbread, or any other mass loader. For that you want closed cell foam normally, and it's for a COMPLETELY different function than mass loaders. If you want to kill ambient noise, you get closed cell foam, if you want to kill noise generated by vibrating panels, you get a mass loader, and more mass is better.

Sure dynamat may be better than secondskin in killing ambient noise, but they both suck at it. If that's what you want to get rid of there are better things out there, and regardless you can get 4 layers of secondskin damplifier for the price of 1 layer of dynamat xtreme, and the ss will deaden better in every aspect. When price is taken into consideration dynamat falls flat on its face. Oh, they also inflate their numbers if you didn't know already. This is according to an independant test, not affiliated with any deadening company at all.

Dynamat Xtreme
PUBLISHED SPECS________TESTED SPECS
thickness 44 mils ________60
Weigh PSF .45 __________.49
ALF @ 68F .42___________.124
Peel strength psi 42.6______13.6
temp 300F___________300f no degration
__________________
'01 Black Sentra SE
Weapon-R intake, HS header, HKS catback, ES motor mounts, B&M short shifter, Tein coilovers
Alpine 9835, Adire Koda 6.1, Adire Brahma 15, Arc 2100cxl, Linear Power 2.2hv, Cadence ZRS-8

'05 Silver WRX STi
Injen SES Downpipe, HKS Carbon-Ti catback, Cobb Stage 2 Tune, TiC Super Shifter, TiC Klunk Killer, Tein springs, Nitto NT555R Drag Radials
sr20de4evr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-2004, 02:01 PM   #10
Syk0tic
AF Newbie
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Cutler, California
Posts: 49
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Send a message via AIM to Syk0tic Send a message via Yahoo to Syk0tic
Re: Re: Best Sound Proofing Material?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Haibane
sr20de4evr, what about dynamat, any better?
Can you explain dynamat to me? Since it reduces noise from outside that means you wont be able to hear your music(from outside) when your windows are up right?
__________________
Syk0tic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2004, 01:42 AM   #11
SilverJLEclipse
AF Newbie
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Irvine, California
Posts: 32
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Send a message via AIM to SilverJLEclipse Send a message via Yahoo to SilverJLEclipse
ok, so you think that dampening vibrations occurs by mass loading? huh, are you sure that mass loading doesnt just lower resonant frequency? you want to know what the real physics definition of dampening is? Dampening This in mind dynamat is still the best material, which is a patented butyl rubber material unlike the bitumous roofing material that most bargain sound deadeners are made for. Your buddy Ant also knows that dynamat is better. He says quit a few different things, this is one before he was into making money for himself Dynamat
Not trying to be a hardass about this but...I don't think you should defend your opinion with the wrong information. When others ask an opinion it should be your job as a person with knowledge (as you obviously have) to inform those with accurate info so that we don't continue having people filling their cars with roofing material (not talking about second skin, which i agree is a good product with good research behind it).
SilverJLEclipse is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2004, 06:07 PM   #12
sr20de4evr
AF Enthusiast
 
sr20de4evr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: San Antonio, TX, Texas
Posts: 3,100
Thanks: 0
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Re: Best Sound Proofing Material?

I looked in about 10 different dictionaries, and that one you linked to is the ONLY one that made any mention of heat. Now I'm not saying that you're wrong, I just think it depends on their interpretation of damping. In my mind there are atleast 2 ways to think about it, one way is for some device to apply a restraining force on an oscillating object to try and settle it. This will dissipate the object's kinetic energy in the form of heat, and this is the view I think that photonics dictionary is taking. The other way is to add mass to an object, so it takes more energy to get it to oscillate in the first place. This isn't an active type of "damping" like the first way is, it's more passive, and since all you're really doing is making it more difficult for the panel to oscillate in the first place, no energy is released in the form of heat since no energy is stored in the panel in to begin with.

Now that that's out of the way, the only thing Ant said in that link in regards to Dynamat is they had a good formula and it was patented, that's it. In the past he very well may have said Dynamat was better than his Damplifier, I'm not going to go searching around to find out for sure. What I do know is that it is much more cost effective to go with any of the dynamat substitutes (there are many, not just ss, I would be willing to spend my money on rammat, edead, brownbread, etc as well). If your time is so valuable that it's simply not worth it to spend an extra hour or 2 putting on an extra layer of the "cheap stuff" to get better dampening for cheaper, then by all means go with Dynamat.

The fact that their ratings are so grossly overrated is even more sketchy IMO. Their peel strength and acoustic loss are both less than 1/3 of what they claim it is, which strikes me as a little odd coming from such a "respectable" company.

hmm, the website is down so I can't make my post, guess I'll just type a bit more then....

Dynamat seems similar to Bose to me (except not nearly as bad). Bose charges rediculous prices for horrible products, yet because of their insanely high prices, wide array of patents, and vast amounts of advertising, they managed to get a name in the industry as being the "best" (atleast to the uninformed). People think that because something is patented and it costs a hell of a lot more than the other options, then it must be the best, but it's all a marketing gimmick. Dynamat is still a good product unlike Bose, but their approach seems very similar. They went and got a few patents, slapped their name all over their product, did a lot of advertising and marketing, and charged a rediculous amount of money for their deadener. This gave them a name in the industry as being the best, now no matter what happens they can just ride that reputation out and make a killing, charging whatever amount they want for their product no matter how good or bad it really is (up to a point obviously). These tests just confirm that in my mind.

You don't have to agree with anything I'm saying, I'm really just rambling because it's 2am on a Friday night and I'm not doing anything....
__________________
'01 Black Sentra SE
Weapon-R intake, HS header, HKS catback, ES motor mounts, B&M short shifter, Tein coilovers
Alpine 9835, Adire Koda 6.1, Adire Brahma 15, Arc 2100cxl, Linear Power 2.2hv, Cadence ZRS-8

'05 Silver WRX STi
Injen SES Downpipe, HKS Carbon-Ti catback, Cobb Stage 2 Tune, TiC Super Shifter, TiC Klunk Killer, Tein springs, Nitto NT555R Drag Radials
sr20de4evr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-29-2004, 09:05 AM   #13
Haibane
AF Fanatic
 
Haibane's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 2,416
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Send a message via AIM to Haibane
Re: Best Sound Proofing Material?

not to interupt your hardcore battles, but how much edead v.2 do you think I would need to cover the panelling etc. in a Jeep Cherokee. Do I need to use it everywere or only where it rattles?
__________________
www.cloudcity.deviantart.com
Haibane is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2004, 12:09 PM   #14
amdsoldier
AF Enthusiast
Thread starter
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: P-Town, Oregon
Posts: 208
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Re: Re: Best Sound Proofing Material?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Haibane
not to interupt your hardcore battles, but how much edead v.2 do you think I would need to cover the panelling etc. in a Jeep Cherokee. Do I need to use it everywere or only where it rattles?
Hehe I dunno lets find out.

Thanks for the information guys. Who sells this stuff here though? It would be great to get a discount, thanks!
amdsoldier is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2004, 12:39 PM   #15
SilverJLEclipse
AF Newbie
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Irvine, California
Posts: 32
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Send a message via AIM to SilverJLEclipse Send a message via Yahoo to SilverJLEclipse
Re: Best Sound Proofing Material?

there are many different ways to install with regards to coverage. The first and easiest would be to hit the problem areas with minimal coverage, mainly doors and the speaker mounting surface. From there you can add to your liking or budget. I think most will agree that sealing up the doors completely will increase midbass response. Floor and firewall application will help to reduce road noise. I also use expanding foam to fill the void in the areas where deadening material cannot be applied. Good luck.
SilverJLEclipse is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Reply

POST REPLY TO THIS THREAD


Bookmarks
Go Back   Automotive Forums .com Car Chat > Car Audio

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:05 AM.

Community Participation Guidelines | How to use your User Control Panel

Powered by: vBulletin | Copyright Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
 
 
no new posts