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04-13-2006, 12:24 AM | #46 | ||||
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Re: "American" vs. "Import"
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04-13-2006, 12:32 AM | #47 | ||
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Re: "American" vs. "Import"
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The fully revamped Mustang is selling very good The Camaro is going to be back The Ford GT is running with European cars of twice it's cost The GTO came back and will be back again* The Challenger is going to be reintroduced The Charger has been brought back, though with four doors The Corvette, arguably one of the best values in the history of cars, is in the mix with cars four or five times more expensive The US domestic market is growing and seems to be set to continue to grow, it's hardly declining. The youth market in big cities may be very import centralized but much of the youth market else where and just about the entire older adult population is very domestic biased. *To my understanding the current GTO is being discontinued because the Holden car that it is based off of is being discontinued. A new GTO built off the same rear drive platform being used for the new Camaro and is scheduled to come out at the same time or a year later.
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04-13-2006, 12:49 AM | #48 | ||
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Re: "American" vs. "Import"
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I don't like American cars, but some of them are pretty damn good.
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04-13-2006, 01:03 AM | #49 | |
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Re: "American" vs. "Import"
America is hardly out of the performance game, in fact in many areas its pretty dominant.
The SRT4 is quickly becoming a favorite of FWD racers. It doesn't take a whole lot of money to have that thing running more power then literally any Japanese car does stock. Name one Japanese car under $25,000 new that can beat a Stage II Mopar SRT4 in a straight line. The Cobalt SS is in a similar position to beat up on Civic Type-S's, RSXs, etc. Moving up a little bit, the Mustang GT is the only RWD V8 sports car under $30,000 that I can think of. Plus it looks great. The GTO has a LS2. Thats 400hp stock for what ends up being around $30,000 after incentives. If I were to bet on a drag race between the GTO and ANY Japanese car ever sold in the States my money would probably be on the GTO. Its an amazing car that is incredibly misunderstood and underestimated. The C6 Corvette is the performance buy for under $50,000. That same LS2 from the GTO except in a lighter, better handling car. The Z06 is fighting Ferrari F430s and Lambo Gallardos on straights. The C5R was a monster in its class in ALMS and I believe the C6R is well. Since the death of the NSX, Japan has absolutely no sports cars above the $40,000 mark and won't until the next NSX and GT-R come out.
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04-13-2006, 01:31 AM | #50 | |||||
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Re: "American" vs. "Import"
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http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...toring&pl=true It also beats a Lambo Murcielao around a track. This Evo actually posted one of the fastest times ever at their track coming in just below a Zonda. This car costs $55 usd, does the 1/4 mile in the 11s, 0-60 in 3.5 sec., and has a top speed of 175. From the vid: "It redifines what you think is physically possible." http://videos.streetfire.net/video/D...C1AB6E53F2.htm Quote:
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Pv4l11Ho1k&search=evo http://videos.streetfire.net/video/1...027BE6ED76.htm http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EiCUdJhm4FE http://www.edmunds.com/apps/vdpconta...0/article.html http://www.edmunds.com/apps/vdpconta...5/article.html http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do...icleId=105130# "Its steering, which is the finest in the world." http://videos.streetfire.net/search/ams%20evo/0.htm Quote:
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04-13-2006, 02:11 AM | #51 | ||
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Re: "American" vs. "Import"
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To quote probably the most knowledgable DSM guru: "No one buys a turbo DSM because it's a nice reliable car. We buy them because they tear ass for short money."
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04-13-2006, 02:19 AM | #52 | |
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Re: "American" vs. "Import"
First of all, Best Motoring is incredibly biased towards Japanese cars. It isn't even funny. Think of how much Jeremy Clarkson loves Aston and then times that by a thousand. I bet you could put an Enzo against a NSX on BM and the NSX would still tie it. I'd really like to see the BM guy in a Evo race the Stig in an Ferrari 360 and see who does better.
The Evo in the Top Gear video is a FQ400, meaning it has 400hp opposed to 281 or so in the American one. I think alot of that has to do with higher a psi, making it an even worse daily driver then the regular one. That FQ400 goes for about 47,000 GBP.
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04-13-2006, 02:55 AM | #53 | ||
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Re: "American" vs. "Import"
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There are many other factors involved than just the normal rates of exchange. UK prices basically translate to the same amound in US dollars. Taken from another thread: "The standard base UK spec MR costs 32,000 pounds" "If you have lived anywhere in the UK, you will realize that US stuff selling in the UK are about a dollar to the pound. It's a perpetual gripe over there :P when I was living there. A PC that costs US$1000 costs GBP1000. US XBox... US$299? UK XBox... GBP299. It sucks.. but there you go. I wouldn't be surprised they could do an FQ400 for US$45,000, abt the same premium over a base US spec MR selling at US$33 to 35k. I see the base models as the VIII in US and the MR FQ300 in UK. The MR Edition in the US costs US$33-35k The closest equivalent in the UK would be the FQ340 which is abt GBP33k." "It's very difficult to estimate how much a certain item would sell for here in the United States, I believe other factors also contribute to the extremely expensive prices for cars in the UK. Would it sell for $80k in the USA, that is highly unlikely, and Mitsubishi wouldn't even waste their time. $45K is also to cheap and it is not always a direct to direct value, if that were the case, then the 350Z convertable prices would start at $26K, sounds great, but bot realistic. $50K to $60K seems more reasonable, but I doubt that the USA will ever see this car, so it is all speculation. Still even at $50k, the price seems high, because it really doesn't take anywhere near $20K to achieve similiar or even better numbers. With $10 to 15K your GSR could be pushing 500HP (Flywheel) or more." The fact that in the UK car prices are extortionate, is that we get taxed out of existence on all things....especially motoring. Just look at our petrol prices (gas)...we have someting like a 400% markup for tax alone. The evo is available from japan at something like the equivalent of £14,000....now as soon as it hits UK shores, VAT @ 17.5% and import duty are slapped on...you then have SVA, underseal and registration etc, which takes the price up a little, but if our government wasn't such a bunch of ****'s then we could probably get the same car for £10k less. "Now the FQ400 should in theory cost you in the US $80,000, if it's a direct converstion from sterling to dollars, but it seems that you guys aren't taxed nearly as much, and so, get most of your cars cheaper....with the exception of skylines, which we can pick up for little money." |
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04-13-2006, 05:21 AM | #54 | ||
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Re: "American" vs. "Import"
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so the 260 just magically disappears when you go into the showroom does it? anyway. only two things i want to add. first, of all, i don't think the FQ400 should not be used in any comparison a representative of the EVO because it was a very limited production car, tuned and fettled and otherwise totally re-jigged by Ralliart using specialist parts and one that you are not likely to ever come across in your lifetime. secondly, i don't think you should cite the Focus as an example of an american economy car. |
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04-13-2006, 12:35 PM | #55 | |||||
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Re: "American" vs. "Import"
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04-13-2006, 02:16 PM | #56 | |
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Re: "American" vs. "Import"
Regarding BM, you could argue on and on about how those guys have spent alot more time with cars like the Evo and Skyline, or that they used a track that appeals to a certain kind of car, but what I think it boils down to is who their audience is. Just like Jeremy Clarkson rarely has a bad thing to say about Aston and Rolls, and American shows sweat the Corvette, the Japanese need to have Japanese cars do well in order to sell the show. You cannot convince me that a 400hp mid-engined RWD supercar should lose to a 300hp AWD Evo.
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04-15-2006, 05:13 PM | #57 | |
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Re: "American" vs. "Import"
By 4G i meant 4G63 if i was to say 4th gen it would have said 4th gen i know what year cars had them and what gens, im not retarded. Hell it even came
I understand that you will put DSM's as better than any other car because thats your first choice in cars. Ive driven a 4G powered 1st gen talon it had nice acceleration, handle pretty well but i wasnt impressed with the car. Honda makes more HP per liter na than any mitsu ever has, without the aid of forced induction most of there cars couldnt break 15's from the factory. Also the FQ400 shouldnt be used as a comparo for bone stock cars, if thats the case then fuck it the z-tune skyline would hand the FQ's ass to itself. Hell you want to make it interesting the fastest all motor honda runs a 9.4, whats the fastest all motor mitsu. As for handling yeah awd would be better for corners but that awd also adds extra weight and parasitic drag on the angine since it has to power 2 more wheels. Im friends with alot of DSM guys they love there cars but they look at some of the hondas and are more impressed by that than a damn 10sec mitsu, they spend more money kepping there cars running than they do on aftermarket parts, let alone tha fact that replacing anything internal that requires removing the engine is a bitch. Ive done 3 swaps on DSM's and numerous ones on hondas. Il admit all cars have there individual potential, but swapping a GSR into a civic HB can get it into the 13's, and an h22 swap on an accord can get that into the 14's, with about 10 psi, lsd, and some other mods the car can get into the 12's thats a 4 door economy car never ment for racing that can beat alot of v8 and alot of turbo I-4's. I see what your saying but i do disagree alot 700 for the 12's and under 2k for 11's elaborate please id love to see this. Best bang for the buck maybe, reliable maybe for 25kmiles. I had a h22 turbo in a civic running 16psi stock internalls, motor lasted about 35k and the rings went in it. And that was with about 120k already on it. Car was good for low 11's and sold it to a guy for over 5k. Say what you want but alot of people arent going to go out and buy a dsm cause someone told them you can run 11's for under 2k. And i know not everyone is going to buy a honda cause someone said an engine swap is getting it into the 13's NA. This is opinions. Thats what forums are no one is right or wrong in this.
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Cant remember who posted it but if you see it give yourself credit Don't ever look at cars as just imports or domestics. Just because a car is made in a certain country doesn't mean that it is anything like another car from that country. An example of this is Mitsubishi reliability, just because they are Japanese doesn't mean that they are as reliable as a Honda or Toyota. Cardomain |
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04-15-2006, 11:22 PM | #58 | ||||||
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Re: "American" vs. "Import"
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"I believe it. I've seen 1Gs run mid 12s with the same mods, and I've posted this before. But instead of the FCD, hacked MAS, and a full exhaust as opposed to just the downpipe. These arent major differences, and the HP numbers they got (most likely from a dynojet) are in line with a mid 12 second car (AWD of course). I might be the only one, but I'm not terribly surprised, even if they did fudge the dynojet a little bit, it's close enough. After all, this is the whole reason we waste our lives with these shitboxes... No one buys a turbo DSM because it's a nice reliable car. We buy them because they tear ass for short money." And everyone quotes psi like it has something to do with how much your internals, etc can take. 16 psi on one turbo and 16 on another are two completely different things, and produce completely different hp. An amount of psi does not have some universal effect.
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04-15-2006, 11:48 PM | #59 | ||
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Re: "American" vs. "Import"
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"To make a car faster, sure you can make more TQ. OR, you can make the same (or a little less) TQ, but go to higher RPM and "take advantage of gearing"... The end result is the same, and you see it at the track all the time. Low TQ high reving imports running right with big TQ low reving V8s. ET and MPH depend on HP, not torque, even though TQ is the force moving the car. " http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbul...d.php?t=210613
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04-16-2006, 03:55 AM | #60 | ||
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Re: "American" vs. "Import"
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