Y do people hate hondas so much....

[publicenemy137]

Originally Posted by integra818

If they designed it to be more "gas efficient", they would've made it an open deck engine. Your ka24 does'nt have shit agiasnt an H22. The only advantage it'll have is that it's in a RWD chassis which makes for a better launch. But then agian, an H22 in a civi will probably launch on your 240.

I never said my KA24 was a performance engine, it's pretty much designed the same as an H22, gas efficient and low on insurance. I never said my 240 was a super-car either. I am going to be realistic and say it's slow compared to other cars, and yes even slower than an H22 in a Civic and probably in a prelude also. But I don't like Hondas anyways, 240s has more advantage than just that. It's a lot more unique and different, I see preludes and Civics everywhere, ppl who own em are lemmings. That and 240 is a much more fun car to drive, better handling, near 50/50 weight distro, and lets not forget one of the best drifters out there, something no Honda can do.

It's all preference though, Preludes and Civics with H22's are faster than my car, but I'd rather take the advantages the 240 has than just owning a Honda.

[publicenemy137]

Originally Posted by integra818

If they designed it to be more "gas efficient", they would've made it an open deck engine. Your ka24 does'nt have shit agiasnt an H22. The only advantage it'll have is that it's in a RWD chassis which makes for a better launch. But then agian, an H22 in a civi will probably launch on your 240.

another thing is, I can say the same. An RB26DETT in my 240 will launch anything on any honda, I don't really see where you are getting at. I never said KA24DE's were the shit

[Soyo]

[quote=Prelewd]Most of the time, when people hate a certain car, they do so from the experiences they have had with the drivers of the said car.QUOTE]

this is very true for me... like I said a lot of honda drivers seem to think they are the coolest dude with the best car or whatever, but not all are like that, just the idiots make a bad image for the rest of the honda guys.

then theres mustangs.. late 60's mustangs I love, but anything newer basically I hate... partially because they are way too common like a civic or the such. also most new mustang drivers seem to be dick heads and full of themselves, and I really dislike stuck up people and rude people and most mustang drivers I have met/talked to seem to be that way... although I will say that mustangs have the best rear end, the gears are far better than any others... even my friend with a camaro wants to put a mustang rear end in his camaro because its so good... and he hates mustangs as much if not more than me

[integra818]

Even if it has 50/50 weight weight balance, does'nt mean it has better handling than a Civic. A Civic with 60/40 weight balance can have better handling than a 50/50 RWD car. You read Car&dDriver too much. You listed things that you think make your 240 better but they really don't mean shit.

It makes a better drifter?!? WOOWW, but look, civics have more trunk space! (sarcastic) .

A more fun car to drive? It might be more fun for you, but not more fun to me, that's just a matter of your opinion, and it's can't be taken as a fact. You might as well explain to me why red it better than blue.

[Soyo]

you have a point that fun is opinion, but when you say a 60/40 FWD civic handles better than my 50/50 RWD rx-7 I laugh... hard! RWD handles much better than FWD which is why it is so widely used in all kinds of racing. and 50/50 weights ratio makes a car handle a lot better... its just a fact, you can't argue with facts man... you can say you like the way your FWD handles better than a RWD does but I guarantee that a RWD handles better than a FWD

[publicenemy137]

^ yep, and being a good drifter does mean shit. It means it has great handling, great control, near 50/50 weight distribution, and a great solid chassis. To say your FWD can handle better than a 50/50 distro RWD is stupid, car and driver is probably more factual correct than whatever you are reading.

And you are right, a fun car to drive is opinion, but I am sure the vast majority would think a RWD 240sx that can corner like no other be more fun to drive than a FWD Civic that understeers.

[integra818]

Look, you two are arguing behind a fuckin computer screen. I was at a race today where the Civic that we have on our race team is about 60/40 weight distribution, and it takes on miatas all day. a 60/40 balanced fwd car can do better than a 50/50 balanced fwd OR rwd car. For RWD, 50/50 is good, but for fwd, 50/50 is not neccasary, the driver on our team preferrs more weight on the front end and he likes to toss the rear end around, it's his driving style. What you read in motor-trend and Car&driver about 50/50 bieng perfect does'nt apply to all cars.

Soyo, laugh all you want when I say 60/40 can sometimes be better than 50/50, but what I'm laughing at is how you're acting like you know suspension setup. You can't really say RWD will handle better than fwd in every situation. If it was like that, Mustangs would outhandle Civics, but that's unlikley. And the for the opposite, fwd won't always outhandle rwd. It's like saying v8s are always better than v6s because they have more power, it does'nt mean there are'nt v6s more powerful than v8's. So pull your head out of your ass and start talkin when you know what the fuck you're talkin about you little dipshit.

BTW, I don't read what Car&driver have to say about weight balance and crap, what I talk about comes from expierience, it comes from helping build a class winning N.A.S.A Honda Challenge Civic.

50/50 means a perfect balance, but like I said, fwd with more weight based on the front can handle just as good as perfectly balanced rwd cars assuming the fwd still has a good setup. It's like saying a 300 HP car will always beat a 200 Hp car because it's more powerful, but what if the 200 hp car is much lighter???

EDIT:

Miata. RWD. 50/50 balance= .95 G's on the skidpad
Evo8. 4wd. 60/40 balance= .95 g's on the skidpad

But what went wrong? according to you, the 50/50 miata was supposed to do better than the 60/40 Evo. I guess you were wrong.

[Joseph1082]

Obviously power to weight comes into play, but most normal street cars are within 1000lb. of each other, which is say a + or - 40% while HP varies by 200% or 300%. I do believe even w/ an H22 my LS1 will still have a better power/weight ratio than a civic hatch, so it is still illogical for the immature honda owner to get up in my face about how badass his car is.
BTW, an I6 with TWO turbos weighs about THE SAME as my ALUMINUM 350 LS1.
The days of unreliability are over, my enigne is just as reliable as yours as long as I maintain it properly.
Another acurate figure to look at would be Torque to Weight ratio, since torque is the actual force the moves the mass (weight) of the car... last time I checked, my V8's was vastly superior.

[lazysmurff]

yup, and whats even better is i saw a test once where a camaro kept up with and beat supras, 240's and preludes on a road course. ill see if i cant find it again.

now, lets drop that ls1 into something that doesnt look like a door wedge...

[Prelewd]

Originally Posted by lazysmurff

now, lets drop that ls1 into something that doesnt look like a door wedge...

..and lets see them do it with an inline 6.

I like the look of the newer camaros though.. except the nose and the side mirrors.

EDIT: and the gawdy interior.

[publicenemy137]

^ yea the interior is very cheap in American cars sports car (well F-bodies and mustangs) which I don't like at all. My friend's firebirds and camaros have plastic ugly interiors, very cheap lookin.

Anyways domestics will be faster than imports fully modded, I don't like to admit this either but they are. You say small engines have turbo to match their V8 engines, but they can be boosted also. My friend goes to this track all the time in Flordia, where the richest people are. The fastest cars are domestics, they had a Corvette made out of fiberglass and ran 6s in the 1/4 mile. Last week he said he saw a mustang and firebird go at it, the firebird got 7.3 secs while the mustang got a 7.0 flat. The firebird had a 700ci engine in it. They only have domestic cars there that go this fast, the fastest import there was recorded at 8.8 seconds, which was accomplished by a Supra. There really is no replacement for displacement.

But I really don't care because I don't want a car that fast, 12 seconds and I'm happy. An import can accomplish that without too much effort, plus I like the styling of it a lot more than domestics, generally has better handling (than the F-bodies, and stangs), and I don't know American cars has a cheap feeling to me. Like someone else said, American cars are "cheap hp." They have the best value for speed, but they lack in other areas. Cheap interiors, engines that don't last as long (yes I know they can last long joseph, but if you visit import vs domestic forums, the american car owners have a lot more problems still and don't last as long). And I dunno, when I get in an American car and drive one, it doesn't feel the same as my Nissan. I can't control it as well and doesn't seem like I'm one with my car, my sis agrees, she calls it a "toy car." But it's all opinion, when you want to feel speed it definetly gets that accomplished. And I'm sure others think American cars are much more fun to drive than imports just b/c it has a big V8 engine rumble with speed. It all just depends which each person

[Joseph1082]

But Prelewd, you can't admit that it is true, a v8 will always be better? Today they are just as ligght as I6 TTs, just as powerful, more Torque, more displacement (for which there is no replacement), higher top speeds. My car weighs about the same as a Supra might be a few lighter, has more Torque, more power.
I like to "feel" my power, like neck-snapping, rather than drive an S2K where it is all rev power, but I guess that is personal taste... but now waht if my LS1 redline at 9K, I'd still be snapping my neck off the line, and my peak HP would be 525!!!
I don't think my car is CHEAP. The interior in Integras, 240s, Civics, are all pretty much the same, if not cheaper!!! I've sat in all these to know. The only car that might have a better interior is a Supra, but with a $40K price tag it better, and I know the Vette has a much nicer interior than my camaro... you get what you pay for!

[integra818]

Torque is overrated. Torque is nothing without RPM.

[lazysmurff]

what if import car makers (lets keep in mind, imports dont just come from japan) used the same effeciency as they do now, but had 350 CI to play around with. could you imagine the 350 that honda would put out? my right foot is itching at the thought.

[publicenemy137]

^ they aren't going to, and like joseph said, dynamics are different. If it wasn't different then they would have made a V8 with tons of hp by now. I think 240 interiors are nice, a lot nicer than my friend's camaro. I like how the vents are on the side of the doors, and the dash is slopin with the center console. All for a very cockpit-sleek feel. The material is also high quality vinyl.

The F-bodies the material is all plastic and cheap, and there's really no design also. It's just there to get the job done. And civic interiors suck, cheap cars anyways you can't compare. INtegra's are nice